XFire Debate Club “Censorship In Video Games” Open Debate Transcript:

The Open Debate Room Transcript

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[Xfire]TwiceUzi: ok, save this room for on topic debate
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : we start the debate?
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Skull9490|ups|: censorship in games rofl
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: I mean… it should mainly be like for the movies… you have ratings for gaves
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otakuman24: Wow
[PF] Ertle: well may i ask a quick question?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: just like you have ratings for movies
Katana: why just for movies?
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[Xfire]TwiceUzi: the debate will start in 5 minutes
*Fragnarg: yes
Katana: what difference is there?
otakuman24: Lots and lots of peopple here
{SBOD}s ninja: i thinkit has its place but needs to be more refined
Elric: yeah
[PF] Ertle: how we gonna decide who talks when?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: well … no difference
[PF] Ertle: is it gonna be a free for all?
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Chocobo Shogun: seems like it…
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: on topic free for all
Dark Chili: I think that censorship in games is just stupid in the fact that it actually has less violence than something like the news or an average day at a fast food resturaunt
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in Teen rated games… you’re going to have the content a 13+ movie has
Ravenhawk: These places are usually a bit chaotic Ertle
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[Xfire]TwiceUzi: off topic / spam will be muted
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in a M (mature 17+) you’re going to have a 16
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 16+ movie content
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{SBOD}s ninja: yeah thats sorta what i think
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and in adult… no limit i guess
Chocobo Shogun: yeah
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{CIA}Crimson_Might: this is about censorship in games right?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it depends on what range of age you’re looking for for your game
{SBOD}s ninja: if you censor something that the people will se walking down the street its just stupid
Nodgene: Aye
Skull9490|ups|: this is stupid, we shouldnt be censoring stuf
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i think there need to be more ratings, but no more censorship… we should have like 5 differents ratings
Elric: 3 minutes
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: censhorship is based soley on fear of the spread of “dangerous” knowledge
Katana: I don’t mind people making such violent games, but just don’t have 5-year-old kids playing them
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Skull
Skull9490|ups|: exactly
Adreniline: I think it should be optional, not required
Skull9490|ups|: yeah?
{CIA}Crimson_Might: isnt it really up the the perents to be watching the kids and what they play?
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Censorship is needed
otakuman24: This is moving so fast, it’s going to be hard to keep track
swdro: I think we can agree that it’s a slippery slope.
§ TexanMan §: ya
Katana: Crimson: Kids are trick
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: otherwise you could have extreme gore in kid games
Skull9490|ups|: we just need more ratings
[ZiiP]Lazzars: though if we go down the path of putting ratings on games like we are then we may end up with a system like what we have in films were ones that are too graphic get banned
WhiteSniper: I think the censorship should start at like … unrated games, everyone’s that plays T rated games are probably mature enough to play games with nakedness and swearwords and stuff.
Peach: we censor games then we will have to censor movies, tv shows, and ever books
Nodgene: Americans are strange… People can get a semi-automatic pistol, and yet when a woman in a game has no top on it MUST be censored 😐 Bizare logic.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: censoring violence is only creating a forbidden fruit phenomenon
Dark Chili: if you want people to not see something, then don’t let people see it
AdDiCt: if the parents are buying it for the kids that “get in trouble” then its the parents fault, not the movie or game or picture or anything
Peach: even*
Katana: Crimson: Kids can buy games themselves, then change the channel for adults
{SBOD}s ninja: ….they way i think there should be a scale 1-10 with kids games being one and some thing like playboy the mansion being 10
{CIA}Crimson_Might: doesnt matter though. its the moms and daddys resposiblity
Elric: I don’t think we need more ratings, M can have all content uncensored, I mean, in most countries the adult age starts at 18……
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : having censorship in a game is not right you pay for a game and want to see everything., ok the sims 2 has some scenes that involve nudity. but thats rated E for everyone the game leisure suit larry is stupid because it has a big censor bar, people pay to see everything not CENSOR wrtten all over it
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insertnamehereizzel: IMO, Parents should take more… whats the word im looking for, interest, in what their children are watching and playing. You hear of things where GTA influenced them to do the murders, but you have to take into account their mental health condition
Katana: You can’t always be watching the kids
§ TexanMan §: i see little kids (younger than 5 years old) playing halo
The Chaos Demon: But the current system of an ESRB wortked fine before these new game legislations involving arrests.
Skull9490|ups|: if we censor one thing, everything gets censored
Adreniline: Censorship should be something the end users can decide, not enforced by the company who is making the game
Jester: Censorship is against the COnstitution in the US, so it should be illegal here
[PF] Ertle: i agree i think censorship is not necisairy because the games are rated and the parents are supposed to be responsable
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: politically this issue is a win win because you can just say we are protecting the youth of the nation (Bs)
Akalic: Adult Only rated games should be the only no-limit genre of the rating system, Mature will have the least restriction of the remaining areas, and gradually the restriction become more strick… Basically what we have now
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and some people just can’t let their family deal with extreme violence, nudity, extreme language … etc…
Katana: guys, probably a good idea to resize this chat window to huge
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Invader_Akira: I agree with Crimson
Steel Bear: A soultion to it may be relaesing, like a movie, two version of a game.. the censored version if parents/you are worried about seeing somthing undesired, and an “uncut” version of the game for people who don’t care what they see.
Elric: i did so
Elric: lol
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in nowaday’s society… Gaming is a big thing
{CIA}Crimson_Might: then maybe we need to come down harder on the game providers to check ID’s
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: that you can’t ignore
eerofromfinland: wow text is coming faster what i can read
Nodgene: Good idea Katana
[ZiiP]Lazzars: parents should be able to raise their children, if they can’t then its their fault for not being proactive
DarthYorktown: =)
*Fragnarg: i think its parent resopnsibilty to censor what three kids play
The_Musician: k i got it
{JAF}Gen Renton: xfire shouldn’t be censored
Skull9490|ups|: yeah
Project X: they shouldenet censor games they have rating its the parents resopniblity to make sure what there playing
§ TexanMan §: we need to slow down
Peach: but steel that would be alot of work on the game makers part
*Fragnarg: yes
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so Companies have to create games that’ll fit Mister and Miss everybody
Nodgene: MAKE YER WINDY BIG! (Otherwise you’ll not be able to cope :()
DarthYorktown: xfire is being censored?>
{SBOD}s ninja: well checking ids has nothing to do with it cause moomy will just buy the game
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Invader_Akira: I don’t have a problem with buying games that are rated M… I’m 19
insertnamehereizzel: I like Crimsons point, go harder with IDs at stores that sell/rent games
Skull9490|ups|: the parents- responsible for their kiddies
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: [12:59] {JAF}Gen Renton: xfire shouldn’t be censored
Atomic|√êdí³: I have walked into best buy after I was off duty and I got carded trying to buy HL2 while in my military uniform, I think that is wrong
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you can’t ignore parts of the market because you want a specific kind of game
Katana: Lazzars: I was a huge deal for my parents, you are for yours, don’t make it seem easy just to make your own view easier
§ TexanMan §: yep
St(+)rck: I agree, there is a rating system for a reason, it is the parents fault if there kids can’t handle the content
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: theres a problem, we cant just expect parents to better monitor their children, because they dont
Shattered Moon: Sup everyone?
DarthYorktown: i think that if they dont want kids to see bad games just dont let em play
§ TexanMan §: most parents dont
DarthYorktown: sup
{JAF}Gen Renton: not much
AdDiCt: agree
Lunarbunny: I think the parents these days are refusing to raise their children, and then they blame bureaucrats for the fact that their kids are playing such-and-so M-rated title
Steel Bear: it might be.. but would it not make the gaming experience a whole lot btr for ppl who want the full story of what the character is going through?
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: if you keep violence out of children’s world, when they DO find out about violence, it becomes all the more appealing. i say desensitize them young, and teach them civic responsibility at the same time
WhiteSniper: I don’t think parents really care about kids playing videogames …
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Dark Chili: but parents now days are dumb as fuck, they let their kids do so much shit, fucking one of my friends said that his girlfriends sister is already on the pill and she’s 9… what kind of parent lets a kid take the pill at 9?
Skull9490|ups|: EXACTLY
{JAF}Gen Renton: I don’t think games should be censored at all
stinky42: Eh but how far does it go with the government parenting for the parents?
§ TexanMan §: mine wont let me even look at m games
Elric: no, thats just retarded, censorship shouldn’t be allowed on videogames, it’s not like you can buy porn videogames on Ebgames or something
Peach: well if parents are too lazy to see what joe is playing then thats thier fault
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Skull9490|ups|: parents are dumbshits
The_Musician: i agree, parents are slacking
Katana: Lunar: Well that may be true, but we have to take responsibility as well
Akalic: you cant protect you kids forever
otakuman24: Can this chat move any faster?
Eternal Sun: I dont undersant why some games have things like M on whislt others have things like 15 non
{CIA}Crimson_Might: have EB and gamestop do their jobs and have people start checking ID’s
Jester: The reason parents dont monitor their kids is because right now they dont have to!
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: its starts !!
Invader_Akira: I’m wondering what the world is coming to
Akalic: shhhhhhhhhh
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: we have children, 8 yr old kids bringing drugs to school, and the parents dont care. were not gonna punsih the parents, what can we do to help the kids?
Akalic: it has begun
Skull9490|ups|: ima watch main floor now
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: [13:00] Nodgene: HELLO EVERYONE!
–> please don’t spam like this
{SBOD}s ninja: nowadays anymethod they use to censor will just be “fixed” by the thecnical smart kids
Elric: yay, it started!
Peach: dont have to monitor what do u mean?
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: If you want to use cups as an excuse like the fucking canadians
stinky42: Statistically the game stores do a pretty good job
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: exactly
Nodgene: Why should parents feel worried that their teenagers want to play violent and porographic games? Seriously, teenagers feel agressive and in need of sexual release all the time.
[ZiiP]Lazzars: Katana: my point is that the ratings are there for parents benefit, if someone gets hold of a game older than they are allowed its hardly their fault but rather those who were meant to prevent them having it
Dark Chili: also there’s the fact that currently it’s OMFG SEX!?! > OMFG SENCELESS KILLING!
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: sorry for that Copy & Paste
{SBOD}s ninja: i mean look at the san andreas “hot coffe” thing that wasnt in the program but people dug it up and put it there
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it was a quote from YouTube i used earlier
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{JAF}Gen Renton: if fear was censored how would u guys feel about it?
Katana: Lazzars: But currently it’s far too easy to stop preventing
Skull9490|ups|: i would h8 it
*Fragnarg: this same kind of debate happend in the 80s to see if music should be censord
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but Crimson Might
Skull9490|ups|: fear pwns
Dark Chili: pretty bullshit
{CIA}Crimson_Might: if you censor games you are taking away from the people who have earned the right to view the explicit content with age
Atomic|Ðdí³: Sorry, but its the parents job to paren not the US Gov’ts
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Of course it would help
Skull9490|ups|: but then again
Katana: Are parents supposed to just hound their kids night and day to make sure they don’t walk int oa game shop???
Skeeb: /clap
Seraph: Simple answer, buy your children the games that way you can decide if there are appropriate. If they are old enough to buy the game themselves, I.e. above the age on the box they are able to deal with the content
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but older brothers, sisters, parents, etc…
Ravenhawk: /clap
Elric: lol
Neebs: /clap
§ TexanMan §: HOOT
Skull9490|ups|: the Hot Coffee in GTA SA………….
Invader_Akira: has anyone read the story about the 2 toddlers smoking pot… what is that all about?
{JAF}Gen Renton: If they censored ever t and m game i would be very pissed
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: I am curious about what is censored as some of you have brought up
Lunarbunny: no, what they should do however is be open with their kids
The_Musician: *applause*
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: would still buy mortal kombat for the 10 years old kid
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : pizzap you got a good point
Dendei: /clap
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: if they really want to
Lunarbunny: and try to know what they’re playing
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Chocobo Shogun: /clap
{CIA}Crimson_Might: perants need to take resposiblity for their own children and stop blaiming others
{SBOD}s ninja: yeah
Adreniline: yes
Akalic: agree
Dark Chili: I get in more trouble for this fucking sentence than if I beat the shit out of someone cause it has 3 fucking cuss words
*Fragnarg: agreed
{JAF}Gen Renton: grand theft auto san andreas got rerated to ao because of the hot coffee mod
§ TexanMan §: m games should be illegal for under 10
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : but the HOT COFFEE mod for GTA shoud havent been censored. GTA is 18plus
Dark Chili: everyone’s gonna hear them
Steel Bear: kids are going to have to be exposed to this time sometime in their life.. getting them used to it early would make it much less of a shock
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Skull9490|ups|: this is stupid, DONT CENSOR IT
Skull9490|ups|: BOTTOM LINE
§ TexanMan §: y not cencer
{SBOD}s ninja: its mostly up to them the parents buy us games and then see us killing people and say oh my GOD noNONO
Adreniline: but, censorship should be an option on the user’s end
Atomic|√êdí³: its eaiser to get porn at best buy then Half life 2, am I the only one hwo has a problem with that?
insertnamehereizzel: Parents should really know what their children are playing/watching. That could prevent the blame to fall on games such as GTA that are INTENDED FOR PEOPLE 18+ NOT LITTLE KIDS!!
Katana: Skull: Say something sensible, you’re clogging chat
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Its true, but to be fair the Hot Coffee mod was not evaluated to establish the rating
Project X: the parenets jsut dont want to feel like that they are the casue of allt his vilence the want to say the hard working game makers a responsible
Dark Chili: what, like desencitized?
[PF] Ertle: lazy parents are trying to drop the responsibility of censorship on the governments and companies completley
[PF] Ertle: so they dont deal with it
St(+)rck: It takes a very disturbed and/or naive person to transform the stuff they see in video games to real life. I grew up on Goldeneye and the Grand Theft Auto Series and I am a normal person
{JAF}Gen Renton: censorship should be decided by the player not the fcc
Shattered Moon: Young people shouldn’t have access to very violent games such as GTA, especialyl during development phases.
Elric: but hot coffe wasn’t mean to be played or even seen….
Peach: i agree fully games should be censored at the buyers expense
cLy crytex: k im 12 n id like to say something dont you think that if videogames really causeed violence in people then dont you think people who play theese games for a living would have killed tons of peple by now
{CIA}Crimson_Might: censorship?! what would doom 3 be like without blood and guts?
Skull9490|ups|: thats true but tthe hot coffee still needed to be dealt with
Invader_Akira: I don’t see the point in censoring things… people are just going to find their way around it
Katana: Blame is never fully in one way
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: in principle if the rest of the game were less mature, it could have had a lower rating
AdDiCt: “game play may change during online play” is what most games say now… that includes mods and hacks and everythign that might come with playing online WHICH would include Hot Coffee
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: desensitized means that something doesn’t phase you. like, all of us gamers are desensitized to violence
Neebs: If anything, Call of Duty 2 and Battlefield 2 extra sensitized me. Not much scares me, but open war is damn scary to me.
Skull9490|ups|: its just the parents who r responsible for kids
Peach: that is true addict
Katana: When you saw An Inconvenient Truth, it didn’t ONLY say “Lobby to congress to change laws”
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§ TexanMan §: i think the game companys should have to right to not censor the games
[ZiiP]Lazzars: my point would be is that parents should look after their children, they can’t be to blame if they get hold of something they shouldn’t
Skull9490|ups|: not video games
otakuman24: I think M rated games deserve a chance to be evaluated more in depth and might deserve a separate rating for some.
Katana: It said “WE ARE ALL TO BLAME”
*Fragnarg: music, movies and tv shows they all have ratiing so do video games
Nodgene: Hot coffee caused controvasy because rock stat didn’t tell anyone about it. They didn’t own up to it, and besides that it required external content to make it work… It isn’t a viable example.
{SBOD}s ninja: dude if people want to censore kids from porn they need to inform parents becayse the parents are the biggest things in a kids life and if a parent doesnt say anything about something thean its basicaly an ok for the kids to do it
Katana: that’s true
Dark Chili: think about while we’re on the hot coffee thing, you have to actually look for it to get it! It’s in there, you don;t need to hack in and get it, just play it normally, it’s like that damn naked chick texture in Oblivion.
Elric: that’s right, it’s the parents job to prevent children from obtaining unadequate games
§ TexanMan §: yes
*Fragnarg: then rockstar is to blame
Katana: just make sure the parents know about it
russia545: Guys, pornography is very accessible.
{JAF}Gen Renton: games should be decided by the player what do u guys think of that?
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russia545: Especially if one has a computer
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Skeeb: I was able to get r rated movies WAY easier than a M rated game
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The Chaos Demon: But the thing is that games should be treated like other media, but it’s not. Games on the news, and in the common people’s minds are thought of as the lowest form of media.
{ONC}Mordakaida: It is the family members of that child to help him grow and mature into a man/woman not the Game Designers or Companies.
russia545: the parents are to blame
[PF] Ertle: video games are just like movies, and we dont censor them, so i dont think we should censor video games
insertnamehereizzel: I don’t think video games should be censored, if I’m paying $60 for a new 360 game or somthing I don’t want words beeped out because some teenager with a mental problem played it then killed people.
Project X: i mena reakky statistically child vilence has gone down since video game were inrtodueced
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PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: hello internet, hello porn violence and swearing
[PF] Ertle: its just another form of entertainment
{CIA}Crimson_Might: who here is from euro countrys?
§ TexanMan §: its called cybersitter if ur on a computer
JF-$g†.Åréš ©™: hi all
TDF-TITAN: hiiiiiip
TDF-ACE: ass hole
[Xfire] SDaria:
Can you recall the moment or event or game that caused you to become passionate about this issue? How did this moment tie in to your previous background and lead you to become involved?”
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{SBOD}s ninja: anybody can go to google and type in porn and get porn hell i used to do it as a kid
[ZiiP]Lazzars: if parents actially took an intrest in their children and drew a line for whats acceptable and whats not then thre would be no debate
Lunarbunny: um…good question
Elric: yeah, porn is very accesible, and no one says it should be banned “OMFG let’s ban teh playboy”
Skeeb: Hot coffee
Pause: First moment? I’d say Hot coffee
#XperT ‘ Smoreo.: hey all
-TDF-DRAGON4-: Yawnfest!!!
-|HR|-Mugzzzy: just because something is easy to get doesn’t mean we should make it easier or not strive to make it more difficult to access
Pause: HAHA anyone else?
Steel Bear: I always find it humours when 10 yr old kids come on the microphone on xbox live.. parents later complain to xbox that little timmy has been exposed to all this junk.. read the terms of use… it’s 13+ or somthing like that… this kind of stuff happens all the time with parents.. they just don’t quite grasp the concept that little timmy isn’t meant to be playing halo 2 on xbox live..
Atomic|√êdí³: if you want to play a porn game, you should be able to, you have hte rights of Life Liberty and Property
{SBOD}s ninja: …first moment
Skull9490|ups|: hot coffee
St(+)rck: Probably GTS:SA and the whole Hot Coffee
{SBOD}s ninja: ..ummm
{CIA}Crimson_Might: nudity is very acceptable in other contrys and usa hasnt caught up
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PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: yeah the event for me was the first time i got suspended from school for saying somethign somebody else didn’t like
{SBOD}s ninja: ……
Manny: Hmmm good question, i would say GTA.
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Project X: hot coffe
§ TexanMan §: gta
!Ch3m!cal !* 卐*!: lol
{SBOD}s ninja: dont realy remember
insertnamehereizzel: I agree with Skull, don’t put porn in video games. Thats what internet is for. Leave it out of games
TDF-ACE: é‘€
Skull9490|ups|: GTA SA
Skull9490|ups|: def
Neebs: The event that made me passionate? The pure attacks from uneducated government people.
!Ch3m!cal !* 卐*!: wow everyone slow down
Chocobo Shogun: gta
Seraph: Giants, Citizen Kabuto
Katana: I REMEMBER…..it was when I first played Team Fortress Classic and saw the amount of gore in it
Pause: Well, GTA wasn’t really the first
digimediafinance: digimediafinance: Hi – My name is Barry. I have a blog based in Silcon Valley covering business innovation in Digital Etnertainment at www.digimediafinance.com. I am based in Silcion Valely and palbn to blog regarding today’s debate. I wonder if folks can give me a quick summary of your interst, experience, etc.
otakuman24: I have to agree that Hot Coffee was the first moment where I thought to myself, “HOLY COW this is going to be big!”
Lunarbunny: I think the point where I was barred from buying an M-rated game and had to get my parents
AdDiCt: doom
Cyron_HOTO: if it gets cencored it will get cracked anyway and then you can have your sexy polygons
Shattered Moon: Hot coffee really pissed me off in the first place, not the fact that it was in there, but the fact that so many people go so upset over it
AdDiCt: Doom 1
{JAF}Gen Renton: no games should be forced censored by the fcc
§ TexanMan §: they need better protection
Pause: Well i wouldn’t say that Gen
Invader_Akira: People can’t seem grasp the point that the people that killed people after playing a game have mostly likely had mental problems
Shattered Moon: Like thereis a HUGE difference betweetn 17 and 18 anyway.
Lunarbunny: the whole thing is that THEY believed I was mature enough to play these games
Pause: I think they shouldn’t get censored passed the point of stupidity
otakuman24: But the real moment that it really started for me was Columbine and when I first heard of Doom being blamed
The_Musician: games should be censored on their ratings
{JAF}Gen Renton: Look at halo for example on pc
Skeeb: I didn’t even think there was legislation before hot coffee
{SBOD}s ninja: i say that too who ever wants to play pornoguy can do it online but violence is meant for the console
Dendei: Well, earliest I can remember myself, it was during the times of Mortal Kombat that things started to get heavy. Personally I thought it was a bit much at the time, but those events have since laid the foundation for the rating system we use today.
{CIA}Crimson_Might: but nudity hasnt really got my panties in a twist… violence is all over… what would Doom 3 be like eh?
Shattered Moon: What things has a 18 year old seen that a 17 year old hasnt?
{JAF}Gen Renton: u can turn the blood on or off right?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Censorship is everywhere and in almost everything… it puts a limit between what can be done in a politicly correct way and what can NOT be done
Katana: Mortal K is a good one
Peach: but we arent just talking about the USA people open ur minds
Pause: like if they add those black bars over body parts, that’d just be dumb
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: yet again
DarthYorktown: really
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: depending on the Age Range
Kaizer Döuken: I believe all the rockus started with GTA 3
Eizzil: For me it was the criticism against Counter-Strike and judgemental accusations that the game instigated real-life violent behavior in kids.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or rating
Surferdude: censoreship plain and simple cna be ok for the game….i say if you want it censored then any game ment for little kids, and pre-teens should but but any game thats rated liek m then shouldnt be
Skull9490|ups|: yeah, i think that AO and M should be 1 rating
Pause: Yea the SNES version of Mortal Kombat is the best one
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: [13:05] {JAF}Gen Renton: Look at halo for example on pc
–> what about Halo for the PC?
§ TexanMan §: yes
Invader_Akira: I’ve played a lot of violent games and I haven’t blew up a building like you would on CS
JF-$g†.Åréš ©™: JF rocks
Katana: we don’t mean black bars, we mean like replacing blood with sweat
The Chaos Demon: SteelBear, in my and my friend’s experience on XBL, we’ve mostly encountered KIDS that are spreading foul language and exposing OTHERS to tomfoolery, not the other way around.
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i first came against censorship when i saw the huge movement for the removal of a blood mod from the call of duty filefront site. if people didnt want this, then they shouldnt download it. and there was a disclaimer on the mod…
Nodgene: Yes, rockstar was to blame. I heard in a speech which I attended done by Dave Perry, in which a flight sim development company released a game. The game had homosexual porn in place of the final cut scene because the lead programmer got angry at his pay and sabotaged it, the developers immediately addmited to this, however… “oops! sorry! one of our men went bezerker! We’ll patch it.” and that was it! Not the same as the “Hot coffee” situation at all!
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Dark Chili: also, people now fuck at liek 14 yet pr0n is only for 18 – 21 up in some places
TDF-ACE: take off all sexuly games i say and if you can see privet pearts get rid of it
{JAF}Gen Renton: on the computer the player can choose to censor out the blood and gore
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Skull9490|ups|: 17+ and 18+ arent exactly gonna affect ppl much
Pause: Its hard to put the blame on anyone in these cases however
Skeeb: I can honestly say, i see worse in my high school, than i can in games. That’ll freak me out anyway >.>
Steel Bear: people also don’t seem to grasp that ppl who go on shooting sprees have most likely been tormented by others for the way they dress/what they do after school/who they hang out with/ect.. pin pointing blame on video games is the most arogance i’ve seen in a long while
[ZiiP]Lazzars: the idea of an age rating is arbetrary, it shouldn’t be down to that as most people say that what does an 18 year old know that a 17 year old doesn’t
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: The ability to turn blood on or of should be included in all games that included violence
Dark Chili: damn Japan’s age of concent is 13, lets all move to Japan
Elric: SNES version is the best, except for the lack of blood, I see Kombat, but where’s the “Mortal”?
{JAF}Gen Renton: and no one complanes about that
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: You need Censorship to prevent 8 years old kids to start doing stuff that you wouldnt see the kid doing until he’s 15~16 at leat
Pause: The person with the most fault is the parent
§ TexanMan §: cs just give kids the wrong idea about shooting peopple
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: *least
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : well the games should have a censor only if the person accepts on buying the game. the game will ask the parent to install it and define if he is playing the game also he should put in a password so his children will play the game with a censor if they dont know the password. the game should be thought like this.
russia545: can you actually talk in the main floor chat?
Atomic|√êdí³: ill blunt, I started at 8 playing Doom, I would consider myself a productive member of soceity, and htat game is blamed for more of our problems then anything else
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Skeeb: no
Nodgene: The Americans kicked this issue off, I think they’re the only ones mad enough to censor games, and that their presidential candidates to blame games for violence 😐
otakuman24: Can we PLEASE keep the swearing to a STRICT minimum please? I want to be able to have a civil and respectable chat discussion and debate here
Neebs: Not only when the attacks on gaming started…but when I watched V for Vendetta. That movie changed my political standings….I question every law passed now….
Dark Chili: FUCK BUSH!
Skull9490|ups|: the main problem with censorship is the PARENTS
Shattered Moon: Except for China
Pause: At some point you cannot enforce censorship for children
Shattered Moon: ya know
russia545: can you talk in the main floor
Katana: otaku’s right
Dark Chili: someone had to say that
Lunarbunny: I started playing Unreal Tournament GOTYE at 12. I haven’t assaulted or killed anybody in the 7 years I’ve been living since then
{ONC}Mordakaida: What is the differnce then Mortal Combat video Games and Power Rangers? Both show violence but only the games are trying to get censored.. Is very weird to me.
Katana: russia: No
TDF-ACE: ᆆ]\
Shattered Moon: Restricting the time on WoW
§ TexanMan §: Most parents ignore the issue of m rated games
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol
insertnamehereizzel: Censoring games won’t stop the explicit content. I’m pretty sure someone could find a way around it through moding or something similar.
AdDiCt: seriously tho, kids will still get and/or play these games anyway… might as welll make it the parents duty to teach them about the real world
Katana: Lunar: It’s always a probability thing
Shattered Moon: Oh
Pause: you’ll just have to do your job as a parent
Dendei: Agreed Otakuman24
Seraph: Mortal Kombat didn’t have morals
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it’s not parent’s fault
Skull9490|ups|: the first video game ive played and beaten was resident evil
Skull9490|ups|: i was 5
russia545: wait so you cant talk on the main floor chat window?
Katana: NO
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: parent’s can’t see what their childrens are up to 24/7
Shattered Moon: And also, there was a little fiasco with people linking Vtech to CSS.
Pause: Yea thats one thing i don’t find a point in
§ TexanMan §: some parents are irressponsable
{JAF}Gen Renton: There is always going to be a way to uncensor the games
Steel Bear: people pay good money to play WoW… restricting that would just make people angry… there’s parental controls there which can be set, too
AdDiCt: and i agree on mortal kombat too
russia545: ok
Invader_Akira: How is it not the parents fault?
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stinky42: what the heck, Yee’s a child psychologist?
Shattered Moon: What kind of conclusions come from that?
Pause: the fact that Parents don’t get involved with what their children are playing
§ TexanMan §: yes
Not a Pie: Why does first shooter video game with blood are censored, everybody has already seen blood and violence? that’s our world. We can’t do anything about it.
Pause: and then blame it on others
{JAF}Gen Renton: what the hell is the point trying to censor them
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: No, the main chat floor is for the guest panel to debate.
Lunarbunny: No, they can’t see it 24/7
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: when i was 5 the NES had just come out, and people said mario was too violent
Project X: i beleive that parents should take the time and read whats in the game and the game shoudl have a feture that blocks out any questoinble images
Elric: I played RE when I was 8, and I’m not shooting people or anything xD
Lunarbunny: but if they get invovled
russia545: No I think
DaSniper: I think the censorship of video games has been around since Mario. References to Mario using Mushrooms to gain power to being related to Drugs, all the way to GTA Hot Coffee incident.
Skull9490|ups|: in fact
russia545: that the parents
Dendei: Personally I think the events following Mortal Kombat were handled rather correctly compared to today
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yes the fault does fall on the parents
Kerotan: i don’t think you need censorship to regulate games, its a mater of trust between the store and the consumer, and other parents
§ TexanMan §: parents need to know what their kids are playing
Lunarbunny: If they get involved they will know
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: most parents of the generation BEFORE the Nintendo
Pause: Kerotan: Agreed
Skull9490|ups|: im 12 and some guy at game stop let me buy GTA:VCS for psp
{JAF}Gen Renton: fuck parents
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 98% of them
{JAF}Gen Renton: their stupid
Travis: imo if your gonna censore video games your gonna have to do it about movies to.. and there not gonna
russia545: should telll their kids that a video game is a video game and that in society itself one must follow the rules
§ TexanMan §: watch ur mouth
insertnamehereizzel: i agree texasman
Peach: parents need to get involved in order to stop this not the government
[ZiiP]Lazzars: its all one big moral panic anyway, there is no way of telling if the game affects the kid or not
{JAF}Gen Renton: they don’t pay attention
Pause: However, it’ll have to be just like movies, you don’t see every movie being a violent pornfest
{ONC}Mordakaida: the first game I ever played was Final Fantasy for the orgional Nintindo system. turn based violence…. Parents now days are to busy to tell their kid no they can’t play that game.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: the REAL matter is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, you can’t blame a game for ANYTHING people do
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: don’t know anything about which games are for kids or what so
Neebs: I first used a computer when I two, and I played Pajama Sam and Super Mario World. I’ve moved up to HL2…Battlefield Halo…Iv’e not killed anything.
Pause: video games are still fine
[PF] Ertle: if your parents cant take the time to learn to look in your PC for porn or bad games then they should be more responsible
Lunarbunny: I wouldn’t say fuck parents – in fact just the opposite
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
Should the U.S. Congress be regulating video game sales in the United States? If not Congress, than who?
Katana: How can we help parents understand their need to get involved?
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Issues of ultimate responsibility aside, do you think that video games do lead to gamers becoming desensitized to violence?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Parents that are under 35
Lunarbunny: NO
Shattered Moon: No
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yet people keep sueing the deveopers and the sellers like EB and its not thier fault if the parents give consent to buy M rated games
{JAF}Gen Renton: no one should blame the games for the persons actions
Jester: definently not
§ TexanMan §: parents need to look up WHY the game is rated for wat it is
{JAF}Gen Renton: its not right
Peach: The parents need to be doing the work not the goverment
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: know a lot more about games
Shattered Moon: The parents should be regulating sale.
insertnamehereizzel: Parents need to know what their kids are playing!!!
Skull9490|ups|: all parents do is have a huge ego and dont take responsibility and blame their childs behaviors on VIDEOGAMES
Lunarbunny: The sellers
otakuman24: Congress should not regular sales. That would be categorizing video games as obscene
AdDiCt: NO\
Steel Bear: parents are not stupid.. they just havn’t been informed/are not up to date in the gaming industry.. whcih is understandable, they have alot of other stuff on their plate, and gaming probably doesn’t seem like a big issue to them
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and know that they won’t let their 8 years old kid play Mortal Kombat
Shattered Moon: Parents need to grow up and do their jobs
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or Resident Evil
§ TexanMan §: yes
Dark Chili: my friends brother is 6 years old and he went into a gamestop and got a copy of Doom 3 all by himself no questions asked… how about the incompetant employees that sell this shit
Project X: no the parents should most of the time thier buying it
{JAF}Gen Renton: congress should fuck off the games
St(+)rck: No way should congress govern sales of video games.
St(+)rck: ESRB should
Lunarbunny: I see most sellers doing very well at regulating sales to minors
Pause: No regulation of sales for a sole reason: Sales in certain video games really DON’T invoke certain actions, they’re just a scape goat
Skeeb: Hell no, Parents oughta regulate, The ESRB does a good job of getting the point across with a big fat M
Skull9490|ups|: yeah
{JAF}Gen Renton: hell no
Shattered Moon: They got a harder task than their parents did, so they dont want to do it.
{SBOD}s ninja: ………what i think needs to be done is to educate parents about the games and how they can help and hurt the kids and let it be both a mutual agreement between the kids and the adults as to what games are played
{CIA}Crimson_Might: why doesnt the USA just make this a red country end of story?
AdDiCt: video games are an art form,… if digital art and cgi are art forms then video games sure as hell are and you dont censor art… fuck that
Seraph: IF they were desensitised to viole,ce the American government is trying to take full advantage of that by using Americas Army as a recruiting tool
Skull9490|ups|: no
[ZiiP]Lazzars: no, they have no right for that sort of thing, besides they have shown again and again they know nothing about games or youth culture at all
Pause: Agreed with Skeeb
Dendei: Regulation of sales? I think that isn’t the governments responsibility here in relation to games. I think such a task should be handled on a trade level, or even just a parental level
insertnamehereizzel: If parents cared about what their kids were playing/watching and took more interest in their kids lives Columbine wouldn’t of happened
Atomic|√êdí³: failed our parents?
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Elric: Censorship is bad, because if the American goverment censors videogames, the whole american versions will be censored, incluiding Mexico and Canada
The Chaos Demon: The ESRB, the system is perfect as it is right now and the government shouldn’t get involved in what should be and IS the parent’s decision.
grammatoneric: The problem is parents still think that video games are for kids. The fact of the matter is video games have been targeted to adults specifically more and more. So like movies some video games are not appropriate for children this is why there is an esrb. If people actually understood that those ratings are there for a reason we wouldn’t even need to consider censorship as an issue.
St(+)rck: ESRB and parents are the responsibilty IMO
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: YES they do but that’s not a bad thing. i am not phased by violence but neither are soldiers in the US army. as long as someone has a code of ethics and strong morals and a sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY it doesn’t matter how desensitized they are
Atomic|√êdí³: Parents failed their kids
{JAF}Gen Renton: I would rather go with the bastards at esrb then our government
§ TexanMan §: aa has the most censorship of any game out there
russia545: jesus christ this is like mega chat
Lunarbunny: In fact, a recent study found that parents are very aware of the ESRB
russia545: I cant read anything
russia545: Ok
Lunarbunny: lemme find the article
TDF-ACE: i think if i had kids i wod not let tem use x-fire if it hade that sex stuf on it
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: ESRB dosen’t do shit go to thier site everything they say says they don’t inforce it they only give gide lines
Dark Chili: look, the current rating system’s fine, it’s just that people are too stupid now that they don’t care
Dendei: Keep the caps to a minimum people, lets keep this cival
Peach: Also i think new rateing would help as well and the discription of why the game is rated M should be larger just to catch peoples eyes
Neebs: Congress shouldn’t be regulating games. Maybe in 30 some years where we have us leading the world, who did this so long ago…but how many Congressmen play video games and understand it.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: What could the gouvernment possibly do about that ?
{ONC}Mordakaida: It is not that games make people anti-social.. it’s that us the kids who were beat up every day of our school days had no where to turn but games.. Games were our friends because we go to school and get our butts kickedl. which lead to my social anixty 😉 it’s not the games it’s the people
Skull9490|ups|: yeah
Shattered Moon: Seriously its “NO BLINKING ALLOWED” in here
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Pause: Parents are aware of the ratings, they just don’t pay attention to it, and would rather say its someone else’s fault
§ TexanMan §: lol
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Skeeb: wow, go dennis
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: The only thing that you could add to ESRB right now
Pause: pointing the finger is easier than taking responsibility
Katana: Dendei: Sorry for the first, was trying to do the second
insertnamehereizzel: lol
Jester: Thank You Dennis!
russia545: Parents would do anything to please their children
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: is to ban certain types of games
Peach: i agree with dennis
Shattered Moon: Rawr,
Elric: cool
Skull9490|ups|: just make the rating symbol larger the older u need to be
Shattered Moon: shush
Steel Bear: the headcount is getting smaller.. may be a bit slower soon, if we’re lucky..
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but this is useless
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: ———As a reminder: spam, line breaks, and off topic statements will be muted
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Lunarbunny: bah, now I have to find the article
DarthYorktown: =) very good
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: since they are Rated from Everyone to Adult
russia545: Any kid can sweetalk their parents into doing or buying them something
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Shattered Moon: Mute thing self, please. Mr. Caps.

§ TexanMan §: what happedned to ka
Skull9490|ups|: ………………………………………… parents are all the problem
Atomic|√êdí³: Seeing as GTA you needed to mod it to get tittiesyou should take that inot account
Seraph: What Grand theft auto situation?
{JAF}Gen Renton: games are not any fun when censored conker shouldn’t be censored at all
Dark Chili: I think that they’re more for fucking over video games than movies is because it actually simulates you killing the dude, movies can be an all out gorefest, so can games, the difference is that it is you pulling the digital trigger
Elric: hot coffe…
insertnamehereizzel: Here is an idea, how about blockbuster, EB games etc. check the IDs and do their jobs?
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Lunarbunny: http://www.harrisongroupinc.com/ATVI120506
Seraph: Thats not even an issue..
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.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Yes i agree parents are problem who agrees?
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Skull9490|ups|: no
{JAF}Gen Renton: conker should never do censored
Jester: the problem isnt regulation, I dont know a single store within driving distance that would sell me an M rated game, and im 16

Julien: Hello everyone!
Ravenhawk: Congress should not be in the business of regulating games. They tend to do things much too inefficiently to really be able to write a good legislation. We shouldn’t have set in stone requirements on who can and can’t purchase a videogame. The ESRB does a very good job and writing out what content exists in a game. It’s up to the consumers to pay attention to those recommendations.
Katana: insertname: Because they’d lose customers and have no reason to
{JAF}Gen Renton: its m anyway
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: 1st amendment
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Dendei: The fact is, you have to get to the base of the sales. These kids arent just getting money from anywhere. Their parents are supplying it for the most part, so I think some responsibility has to be held there
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Steel Bear: saying parents are the only problem is like saying games are the only reason for shooting.. a completly arogant statement which is far over simplifying the problem
Eizzil: In response to [Xfire]TwiceUzi: Issues of ultimate responsibility aside, do you think that video games do lead to gamers becoming desensitized to violence?….: I think gamers know the difference between what’s on the screen and what’s real life, just as movie-viewers or football players do. Being desensitized to violence would be a pre-existing trait. Games can’t change a person that way.
otakuman24: I’m going to wait for most of the commotion to die down as this is getting out of control here. I can hardly read anything before it’s scrolled off, and that’s after resizing
DaSniper: I feel that the government shouldn’t have a hand in Video game Censorship. Instead the goverment should be focused on making sure parents know and understand the rules of video game rated lables. When Ychip came out they had and are still having commercials on how to stop kids from seeing adult TV shows.
Skeeb: My parents had me show them reviews of games before i was 17
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Kerotan: i would diagree with the notion that people come desesitized to violence, in my exp, it hasn’t affected me
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§ TexanMan §: stores like gamestop should tell the person whos buying the game whats in it
{CIA}Crimson_Might: skull
Skull9490|ups|: yea?
Julien: In The Sims 2 theres already censorship
{CIA}Crimson_Might: that is your perents and game providers problem
Lunarbunny: The thing is that congress censoring games would create a new standard just for games
Neebs: Oh yes Dennis just made a good point. This is the only form of expression being attempted to censor. Did we not do this crap with Rock N Roll, comic books and things?
Katana: Skull makes a good point, see what could the parent have done?
Atomic|√êdí³: ZOMG A 12 YEAR OLD ZOMG
{ONC}Mordakaida: If i do not want my nephew to play a game.. He does not play that game even if mother buys these games he should nto be playing.
[PF] Ertle: no full caps
Elric: lol, nude blurs to cover the sims just sucks xD
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Pause: lol
Eternal Sun: or rly?
Pause: But see
[PF] Ertle: u heard the regulater earlier
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§ TexanMan §: no that is smart
Project X: i think the kid and the parent should step in the kid should see that hes not old enough to play that game and if he doesnt the parnet should stop them
Atomic|√êdí³: why hinder my freedom so parents can be lazy?>
St(+)rck: I think an important fact is that games have gotten worse. For anyone over 17 or so, we grew up on Goldeneye and Perfect Dark and Mario. ESRB and censorship was not nearly as big an issue as it is today. Parents did not get involved back then because the games were not that bad, only killing in bad graphics. Today we have every type of bad content in realistic graphics such a GTA and Postal
{JAF}Gen Renton: you guys no there is a hot coffee mod for the sims 2
eerofromfinland: Removing gore from games aimed at adult audiances makes as much sense as beeping out the swear words from pr0n film, everyone who should be playing knows exactly whats going on – so whats the point?
Pause: If you censor games once, the censoring will just get worse
Dendei: So no, this isn’t a congressional issue, or even a government issue for that matter. This is strictly on the retailers and parents
Master Kim: Let the parents do the parenting.
{SBOD}s ninja: ……………….. the problem isnt with the companys they do their job to the bare minimum but its mainly up to the kids to decide what they play
The Chaos Demon: But the congress has already been involved in regulating game sales in some states, and quite frankly, the outcome isn’t the attractive thing I’ve seen. Getting arrested for selling a video game to a minor? Come on!
{CIA}Crimson_Might: pause thats right
insertnamehereizzel: would you ever want your 4 year old son to be playing GTA: San Andreas? Of course not!
Lunarbunny: and the retailers are generally doing a good job
§ TexanMan §: how is censoring a game a bad thing
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.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: why kids they have the right to play what they want
Pause: instead of finding the real problem when kids go nuts in school, they’re just blaming it all on a video game
{SBOD}s ninja: i myself dont play anything ultra violent cause it gets stupid
Pause: and then it becomes a battle of politics
{CIA}Crimson_Might: texasman have you been reading?
Eternal Sun: i think games that allow you rto kill other humans brbrutally should be kept from people who are considered dangerous
{JAF}Gen Renton: their are some fun things in the game
Lunarbunny: I go to the local Best Buy or GameStop and they card me
Neebs: When I have kids…I’ll be the bloody regulator….I know what I can take now…I know what he will take.
Atomic|√êdí³: Censorship is bad n general
{SBOD}s ninja: and i dont play porno cause thats better to watch
[PF] Ertle: if UT didnt have people exploding when blown up then what would the point be?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Of course you’re going to see the games grow more realistic in gore-related stuff
Dark Chili: it’s cause of Columbine, just cause the dumbass shot up the school played Doom, they want us all down as a pre-emptive strike
{JAF}Gen Renton: ya
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or nudity-related stuff
Kerotan: censoring is a bad thing because it goes aginst the right for free speach
AdDiCt: censoring art is not right… having anyone change the artist’s rendition (without their permission) is liek moraly wrong
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Seraph: You think they should go and try it in the real world eternal sun?
Pause: people are either pro-Hilary or against the whole Censoring legislation
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but it’s still the same as it was back then… same content… with better graphics
Skull9490|ups|: there are also mods for WoW and Sims so u CAN see titties etc
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: this guy in main florr said thier is a corelation yes there is but correlation and connection have 2 different meanings
Neebs: But my baby-boomer parents, hell no. My dad played Mario 64 with me, but he was a child of the 60s and 70s….he doesn’t know.
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{ONC}Mordakaida: If we censor games.. then we will have to get into censoring other thigns such as tv, movies.. magazines.. books.. just goes back to the 50’s why dont’ we.
{CIA}Crimson_Might: what would MOH be like without an extreme blood mod?
§ TexanMan §: you also have the right not to buy that game
Master Kim: I would let my child play Halo, but not GTA.
Elric: censoring a ame is a bad thing, because if you censor something then you’d be making a distinction between what you can play and you can’t, violating free speech
Pause: Kerotan: No, censoring isn’t against freedom of speech
Master Kim: Some games are acceptable, others are not.
Pause: Guys, there’s a difference between REGULATION and CENSORSHIP
Nodgene: The idea that censoring games is acceptable is rediculous for several reasons… Firstly, that movies are far more violent and porographic than games. “Hostel” anyone? Movies also hold a dangerous amount of alienation. People watch them and don’t feel connected to the content at all. However, in a game you feel responsible for your actions. I personally do 2V2s online on “Generals” and feel bad about killing the woeful players that manage to join a game of ours… Players feel responsible for their actions, far more so than watching a movie in which some woman gets raped and murdered by a psychopath… It’s not THEIR actions. I feel, that what is aimed to be censored because of its bad influence is actually beneficial. If people play a gorey game about war, they’ll feel more inclinged to cringe at what they’re doing, than simply watching it being done.
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: censoring is to a degree
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Shattered Moon: Farenheit 451 all over again.
Ravenhawk: It is the responsibility of those making the games to regulate what they’re putting out there. If anything, the requirement should be on the makers of the different media types to label what exists in their product. (violence, etc.)
[PF] Ertle: man
insertnamehereizzel: I think the only, ONLY thing that should be censored is porn in video games. I mean why have porn in a video game?
[ZiiP]Lazzars: besides for congress there is no grey, its either bad or its not. at least at the moment they admit that not everyone is the same
Master Kim: My point is, let the parents decide what’s best for the child.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: censoring ANYTHING is wrong. if you censor it, you attach a stigma to it. if there is no stigma there is no problem and there is no need for censoring!
§ TexanMan §: yes
Lunarbunny: Then we get loudmouths like Jack Thompson who try to tie games to everything bad
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[Xfire-TTHS] Klaak: my biggest concern is that people think video games need to be gruesome to be fun
Dark Chili: will they need to censor Pac-man cause he eats in the game? is eating a violation of ratings? where is the fucking line drawn?
§ TexanMan §: also some merdering
Skull9490|ups|: i think that any censorship is violating our bill of rights
{CIA}Crimson_Might: texasman i would stop buying games if i couldnt see blood, tits, and hear fuckyou when i kill someone
Jester: Senator, Id like to hear the name of a store where a child can buy an M rated game
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: well, aren’t some things worthy of bearing a stigma?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Movies are more violent then games “Hostel” ?????
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yes but movies are very much so have had that violnce for ever it is a shock that one can play through a violent movie aka Games
Pause: Regulation is fine in some degree, but when it becomes a living hyperbole then its censoring
[PF] Ertle: having porn in some video games makes it more realistic to the times (God of war)
Skull9490|ups|: gamestop
Project X: if u censor it kids will get more intrested to see what it is
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : I LIVE IN MALTA i saw a peson sell SNGLES 2 to a minor he didnt even look liek he had 16 years old. its rated 18 come on its just stupid. the game companies and ESRB are doing the job but also eveyrone must participate in the selling to minors. Censorship will then be removed completely form games once the minors stop buying violent video games. ok i admit i played doom when i was only 7 years of age noticing a gunfight like that i didnt get to it but for example the ones that involve sex like LEISURE SUIT LARRY MANGA CUM LAUDE and SINGLES 2 should have the censor removed since the minors wont be buying the game. THE SIMS 2 should be rated M for mature if you people say to remove censor. ok if you remove everything youll see nothing under the clothes just a normal body and no parts but these people are removing the censor bar and making it a mature game to play.
[PF] Ertle: stop
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you’ve never played “Manhunt” havnt you ?
{CIA}Crimson_Might: sue gamestop
Not a Pie: i’m 16 and i’m playing games like fear, counter-strike, etc. and i’m not violent at all, there is no sense to this
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Manhunt is ridiculously Goretastic
Master Kim: Games are almost no different than movies.
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but it has the rating that goes with it too
[PF] Ertle: nobody can read a huge paragraph like that in this chat room
Pause: Not a Pie: Not everyone is as sensible as us
Steel Bear: they could aslways ad a UC (uncensored) rating to video games, and dump anything quesrtionable into that category along with a strong warning sign to parents
Seraph: Some things are, yes. But those things, like all others have an age rating Twice
Skull9490|ups|: lol
§ TexanMan §: some people dont buy a game to look at someones tits all day
Skull9490|ups|: but
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it’s for Adults only i think
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insertnamehereizzel: It is an unachieveable goal to censor games and it shouldn’t be a big issue. There will ALWAYS be ways around the censors
Dark Chili: Dude, 10 minutes of the Nightly News has more violence that some M rated games
Pause: You have to realise that SOME people do have problems such as Anti-social personality
-|HR|-Mugzzzy: People who have the tendency to be violent will find ways to express their violence whether through video games or in the alley beating someone up. If anything, I think video games serve as a good way to release some of the anger or tension that type of person has built up throughout the day.
{SBOD}s ninja: what they said about parents not viewing all footage of a game is true but the parents could be informed of the actuall scope of the game
Julien: I’d say only porn should be censorned like they do in the sims 2
Master Kim: If I see Leatherface attack someone with a chainsaw, do you think I’ll do the same after watching a violent movie like The Texas Chainsaw massacre?
Skeeb: I just hate how most parents don’t bother with the ESRB system
[Xfire-TTHS] Klaak: games don’t need amazing graphics or gruesome violence to be fun. hell chess is fun
Neebs: Skull- But those are MODS….they aren’t commericial products. If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” reagenomics DON’T WORK WITH THE INTERNET!
Pause: and the like, and THEY might get affected, HOWEVER we can’t put the blame on games
[ZiiP]Lazzars: some games go overboard for the sake of it, those are the ones that get the media on them and are used as an example for banning others
Shattered Moon: The parents should really be paying attention to the individual child and not the entire nation.
Peach: games are different than movies for the sheer fact that you are controling the person doing the violence
Skull9490|ups|: still i think that M should merge with AO and make it just 18+ no 17+
Master Kim: Granted, games are much more interactive, but still…
Shattered Moon: or world.
Dark Chili: why censor porn? porn rules
Pause: if anything, the PARENTS who know about the problem should regulate what their kids are doing
Skull9490|ups|: ………..
Lunarbunny: again, I say that retailers are doing an extremely good job at carding people
insertnamehereizzel: Wow, no blinking in here or you miss everything
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol Klaal
§ TexanMan §: or just push the m rating to like 19 or 20
Dark Chili: did you miss it, parents now are dumb as fuck
{ONC}Mordakaida: I have played violent games since I was 24.. I have been beat up during school to the point of being beating.. and they call us games the violent ones
Not a Pie: dark chili : we are talking about video games man
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Klaak
Katana: Crimson: You’re an idiot
Master Kim: That’s pretty much right izzel.
Pause: I mean really, people started trying to incorporate the Virginia Tech massacre to video games
Dark Chili: it’s all the same thing
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Eizzil: I think it would be fair to allow Congress to legislate some censorship in video games, or any other media. However, I think they should only be allowed to do so if there is a vast amount of solid, evidential proof that their censorship choices are neccessary.
-{ÐÑC}-Pâtrïót-{L}-: I agree too, but perhaps instead of M it should be different levels of M
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: let’s just say that i prefer the interactivity of WoW or UT or these types of games
Master Kim: It’s no different than movies.
§ TexanMan §: yes
Julien: Crimson: It matters about gameplay, not graphics
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: to Chess
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: we need to regulate it like we regulate alcohol, if a kid shows up at school drunk, the parents are asked about it, we need to do the same if kids start to become violent. HOWEVER, drugs are still being sold on the streets, and the same sort of things. and while the parents should be made aware, censoring would just be about as pointless as prohibition was back in the twenties.
{CIA}Crimson_Might: i didnt spend 5000 dollars on a computer to have doom 1 graphics!!!!
Elric: they always blame videogames for bad things
Invader_Akira: it still wouldn’t matter if it was rated AO 18+ b/c they would just get the parents to buy it
Master Kim: To be fair, games are much more interactive…
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Increse in age will do nothing it will just make it more taboo and society has always done what is taboo ath the time
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : people become violent when they dont understand when they should be violent and when they shouldnt. im not a psycologist but my mother told me look these games are violent you shouldnt be like this in real life its not even nice and will lead you to having a bad life.
*Fragnarg: what about bethesda softworks, they game obvion got its rating pushed up because a thrid party made a mod for it is that fair
§ TexanMan §: like there is like E10+
Katana: Pause: Ironic when they saw he had no games, eh? =/
Pause: when really, he was completely out of his mind either way
Peach: yes it is differnt than movies
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Here is another question though: suppose video games do not make a person more violent; do you think they make an individual more effective at doing violence should they choose to do so?
Project X: what if a painting got censored the world would be up in itself tryting to remove it so why censor game they know people are going to try and stop them
[Xfire] SDaria:
Are children at more risk from exposure to video games than from television, music, movies and books?
Kerotan: just regulate game the same way we do in the UK, the gae rating actually means somthing
Lunarbunny: Patriot: should there be different levels of R?
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: yeah seriously the violent ones are the football players, not the gamer
Master Kim: Totally ironic.
Peach: movies u watch
Not a Pie: pause : yeah the viirginia tech guy was playing css
Peach: games you play
{CIA}Crimson_Might: gameplay is only part of it
Master Kim: Thomas Jackson = retarded.
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: no
Lunarbunny: really, we don’t need more ratings
Pause: No no and no, they aren’t
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Of course SDaria
Peach: difference big time
{SBOD}s ninja: ….you cant puish the m rating we ned to ad more ratings to better inform people from just looking at the rating almost exactly what the game has in it
Dark Chili: Jack’s just mad cause when he was a kid he never got to play Pong
Pause: Movies are more in the mainstream than Video games
Master Kim: Wait, I meant Jack Thompson.
Katana: Not a pie: No, they found no games on his computer
{CIA}Crimson_Might: no they arent
Lunarbunny: that would only serve to confuse
Ravenhawk: I do believe that stores shouldn’t sell M or AO rated games to minors, but that doesn’t mean you should censor the ability to make them..
Julien: I thought va guy was playing some game called overload
Seraph: Research shows that children and gamers are actually less emotionally involved in games than they are in films or music or books
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: They want to learn more stuff about everything
Kerotan: no Cho didn’t play CS:S
Master Kim: O RLY?
Seraph: Null point
Jester: Senator, you can watch a trailer for Half Life 2 and see that it has intense, bloody violence
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: they’re going to want to try all the games they see
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: no period movies have so muich more violnce there aws a study about this on Gamepolitics.com
eerofromfinland: People have been murdered/shot/burnt to death long before video games – whats the issue here?
Not a Pie: yeah he was
{CIA}Crimson_Might: there is more violence in movies
otakuman24: Cho didn’t play ANY games
Skeeb: Thats why parents look at the rating, yee
§ TexanMan §: or just rate games strictor
EGLN|_Loaded: Cho played CS
Nodgene: I think another serious issue is the association that games arefor children… That’s rubbish. Most people who buy games are adult. Why does one assume halo is for children just because it has colourful things? Don’t adults LIKE colour? Come on now! If a game is rated 18, why do staff not require age identification, like alcohol or porn?
Eternal Sun: does anyone think manhunt 2 should be censored?
Katana: CHO DID NOT play any games at college
Pause: i mean really, you can see movies for $7 anywhere and people won’t stop you if you’re younger than the age limit
Ravenhawk: Or hold the game makers responsible for children getting their hands on them, that would not make sense
Elric: no, they are at the same risk, everybody can get easily a porn movie in the internet anyway….
Not a Pie: kero : yeah he was
Skull9490|ups|: the VAT massacre is being put into a video gmae?!?!?!?!
Project X: they are more at risk from vilonece form movies are books they might not see a picture but they describe it really well
Neebs: Loaded – Cho played shit.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so they are at extreme risk of falling under material they should not be in contact with
Jester: there is no need to review and entire game to determine the majority of its content
Pause: Skull: yea it was at one point
§ TexanMan §: yes there is
insertnamehereizzel: retailers are doing an amazing job, every time i go to my local EB games they always ask me for ID when I get something M. Its the parents job not to let them get something violent which can cause something in their mental health to go down.. And thats what caused Columbine, GTA
[=NA=] §àrgôn: I agree nodgene
Kerotan: no they searched his dorm and didn’t find any game
{CIA}Crimson_Might: some books are more graphic then real life too if you have the imagination
Skull9490|ups|: wow, thats stupid
[ZiiP]Lazzars: who gives a crap if some murderer played CS, it didn’t have any affect on him
Master Kim: I heard he played CS on the news, but I have no proof.
§ TexanMan §: what about the GTA insadent
Not a Pie: valve got some problems with it
Kerotan: games*
EGLN|_Loaded: Negative, CNN reported that Cho played CS for quite an amount of time.
Master Kim: Oh.
[=NA=] §àrgôn: Some stores don’t try hard enough to keep Rated M games and above out of minors
Master Kim: Yeah, it was CNN that said that.
Pause: CNN also reported that tu-pac was alive 3 years ago
§ TexanMan §: some one didnt review the game and look what happend
otakuman24: He may have played games when he was in High school, but between then and now is a good 4 years. Lots can happen
Lunarbunny: Hot Coffee was stupid, but not truly RS’s fault
[=NA=] §àrgôn: out of minors hands*
Pause: who knows if the CS ordeal was true
Dendei: Well, one could say that games are more engaging in the acts of violence, rather than simply watching them in other mediums. I would say that simply from that, they are exposed to a different level of violence than the other media counter-parts. Now if this effects the child more or less, that really depends on the child
Ravenhawk: But it isn’t the fault of gamer makers if the stores are slacking off
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: columbine was NOT caused by a game, it was caused by two kids who CHOSE to kill 15 people
Steel Bear: now what if he also ate raisin bran every day of his life? should we pin the problem on raisin bran? i think not
Skull9490|ups|: thats true
[ZiiP]Lazzars: CNN are hardly a biasless media source though
Dark Chili: CNN said that he played cause they gave them money to be biased
Ravenhawk: If anything, the penalty is on the stores.
Lunarbunny: Cho’s roommates said he played a lot of CS
insertnamehereizzel: We shouldnt have even showed Chos video IMO, it just fuled copy cats to kill or plot to kill others
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nothing is caused by game
Julien: My bro’s friend told me cho played some game called overload
Jester: I agree fully with Mr. Halpin’s point
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i’ve never seen anyone saying that his actions were related to a Game
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/news/stories/20070417.html
St(+)rck: I agree, retailers are doing a much better job. I’m 17 and look very old and they still ask for my ID
otakuman24: I agree with Hal that singling out games is opportunistic
Pause: Video games are a scapegoat, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Its just a way for others to say “hey, we didn’t do our job at regulation, but we don’t want the blame!”
Katana: they really need to limit how many people are invited to this chat…it’s hard to respond to anything
Shattered Moon: Steel Bear, you get a big cookie for that comment
Seraph: How many times can I say this. GTA is an 18 Certificate game. Would you give your children an 18 Certificate film?
The Chaos Demon: The thing is that no media; books, movies, music and television makes a person kill people. If they’re messed up in the head, they’re going to kill anyways. But they MIGHT show NEW ways of killing people, but it still won’t cause them to do it.
DarthYorktown: how long is the debate lasting
Peach: violent people are normaly attracted to violent videogames
Shattered Moon: hope you dont mind if i quote it
Neebs: Only once have the EB Games people said to my dad “This game does contain language and violence.” He said…”Well…” looked at me, and said. “Fuck it.” And swiped his credit card.
EGLN|_Loaded: A game cannot make a person kill people. There must be something wrong with the individual before he even plays the games.
Kerotan: chos roommates one thing a search warrent says another
Elric: yup. The columbine murderers were just insane,.,
§ TexanMan §: its caused by people who think the game is real
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Games are used to have a good time depending on the age of the consumer
Invader_Akira: I still think that it’s stupid how some people that if they play a game, they can pick up a gun and automatically know how to shoot it properly
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Project X: child crime has gone down since vilent video games
{SBOD}s ninja: ……..well no you havvent cause anyone who tries something in the game tends to die
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: playing the product
otakuman24: TV has been around for much longer and has seen much more research and results
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[Xfire]TwiceUzi: In response to Dendei, I agree; at a certain level there is a difference between viewing a violent act and undertaking it (even if it is with an avatar)
Adreniline: shootings are cause by multiple factors, not just a game
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{ONC}Mordakaida: I aggree with Loaded. Cho was messed up before he played CS.
grammatoneric: I would like to know what the problem with allowing game designers to regulate themselves? It is their vision and if they want it to be a violent or sexual game then they have that right. It seems that as long as they are willing to admit that a game is not for children there shouldn’t even be a question of censorship. I understand that rockstar shocked everyone with “hot coffee” but I don’t see what difference it really made since that game was rated Mature anyway.
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insertnamehereizzel: Reatailers in my areas are good with checking IDs. It is the parents fault for not taking more of a rule in their childs life
TDF-TITAN: should we make it so if ur not 18u can’t play the gameS?
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Jester: now wait a minute, the violence in the schools of America can be traced to many issues, at the forefront are such issues as Gun Control
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: why not senor art then game design is art
§ TexanMan §: i agree
{CIA}Crimson_Might: how about this? take out all guns from games and replaces them with teddy bears?
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: *censor
[ZiiP]Lazzars: people have to look for rasoning behind everything, games just happen to be an easy fit, whatever happened to people being crazy?
digimediafinance: In his book “the creation of the media”, author Paul Starr discussies one by one the political, legal, technical and economic enviroment for most of our wel known media at the time of their creation and earliest evolutin into the general zeitgeist.

I rarely see any discussion of games along these lines – that we are experiencing the birth of a new medi, which is not really well defined along any of those axes, and is likely to change and grow rapidly in the immediate and foreseeable future.

In addition, the new medium presents jursidictional issues for any government regulation.

Can the speakers address provide their thoughts on these matters?
Not a Pie: childs reduce their frustration by playing violent games
Skull9490|ups|: i think just put a blood options
Jester: so I dont believe anything in terms of relating games to VT massacre or Columbine
Dark Chili: it
The Chaos Demon: But how does counter-strike, and game using a MOUSE and KEYBOARD allow a person to shoot better? They allow no training in aiming a gun and pressing the trigger.
Dark Chili: it’s a stress reliever
Adreniline: they are caused by home situations, life problems, bullying, actually……….they are caused by nearly everything
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Lunarbunny: I believe that insane murderers play lots of violent games but violent games don’t make insane murderers
Seraph: Agreed chaos demon
{SBOD}s ninja: ………..violent videogames are good beacause they offer important stress relife and calm people down but to much violence and the kids start to get a warpped sense of reality and dont know whats going on
Pause: Saying that video games had EVERYTHING to do with violent actions is like saying The Fast and the Furious invoked ALL street racing in our day
Not a Pie: but they don’t kill real ppl cauz they play violent games, that’s insane
{CIA}Crimson_Might: blood options are now a common options because people have crap computers
§ TexanMan §: its the action of pointing a gun at some 1
Invader_Akira: I pointed that out earlier
Elric: because since kids get acces to M rated games, Hot Coffee freaked parents out, but it’s THEIR JOB to prevent children from playing it
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Columbine they did play agmes VT hell no Dr phil is just makeing random accusations
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: people only take drastic dangerous action when they feel they have nothing left to lose. not because of a game. the columbine kids chose to kill those kids because they felt they were living in hell and couldn’t take it anymore
Katana: Chaos Demon: Often improves reflexes, one kid was able to literally headshot 3 policemen
Kaizer Döuken: Altought I agree with senator yee(not to sell video game to minors) I also believe that “minor” should be overlooked. I would say: Do not sell M rated games to a minor without a drivers license since I believe 16 years old persone is mature enough to watch this type of violence
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : hey insertnamehizzel i disagree with you in the retailers part. so lets take this example a boy aged 12 goes to buy a packet of cigarettes the age limit is 18 to buy them legally therefore it IS AGAINST THE LAW to buy it. that same boy goes to buy an 18 rated game and its LEGAL to buy it, come on man its not right how ure saying it
Pause: Its not, its just people not knowing how to control themselves, and their parents saying “it’s not our fault”
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: The Chaos Demon … No but it develops your hand~eye coordination
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Ravenhawk: How can you say that violent videogames make you violent but violent movies dont?
Eizzil: Professionally conducted studies organized by groups such as the American Psychological Association (APA) supported that preexisting traits have a significantly greater impact on behavior than video game playing. There is no strong link between violent video games and real world aggression.
.:ハルマゲドン:.: so by censoring, you may be able to control and moderate violence! but yet you’re wrong you are violating human rights and freedom yourself, so I think blames should be placed upon someone else not the gaming industry or gamers, for example it is the market who should be more catious about letting mature games reach the hands of kids, don’t you think so, and again if you trying to keep censoring things, what differences your country would have with mines (I’m from Iran) who have censored everything, and I mean everything in my country and we reached the level that we cannot do anthing about it….
Pause: and politicians picking up the issue and trying to gain votes
Katana: Raven: The interactivity
insertnamehereizzel: As for the GTA porn, that shouldve been censored. Bringing porn into a video game is like bringing free guns into Baghdad, it adds more fuel to the fight for censorship
Seraph: Indeed, why is this question not being asked about movies?
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: I agree with Raven hawk how?
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: k
[PF] Ertle: because in movies your not in direct control
Jester: Senator, I think you might be talking to Biased Psychaiatrists
EGLN|_Loaded: Using a mouse doesn’t really give you hand-eye cooridination, in fact, it can cause carpel tunnel.
{ONC}Mordakaida: When i was growing up.. I had severe muscle deformities in my hands and legs. My mom baught me a game system.. the eye/hand cordination helped my musscled grow in my hands and let me lead a normal life. I can type now because of games. If anythign that is why I became a huge gamer now.
[PF] Ertle: in a video game your controlling your avatar
AdDiCt: censoring any art form in a free society will eventually make it illegal
Project X: i say we try an regulate games a bit but put a censor on only if they chose
Ravenhawk: I’ve get rid of stress playing shooters or slash ups. If I watched a slasher movie, it wouldn’t relieve stress, but it might up addrenalin
The Chaos Demon: So since something improves hand-eye coordination, it should be banned?
Atomic|√êdí³: i played doom, blood, UT, alot of star wars games, GTA from the ages 8 till now and I am a productive member of soceity, working on my degree, in hte US Air Force, with a girlfriend, etc
Elric: censoring anything violates free speech
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Censorship is already being used in games.. by seperating games in Ratings of Age
Kerotan: hot coffee was never intended to part of the game
Lunarbunny: Todays excercise will be running to conclusions and knee-jerk reactins
Skull9490|ups|: it messes w/ the bill of rights
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: which is good enough
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i disagree, i play a lot of FPS and it has helped my ability to snipe targets at long range with a real rfile
Pause: Elric: Not exactly, you know, slander and libel, however thats off topic :X
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: sellers in EB Games and other stores
§ TexanMan §: its the action your charator is doing which makes some games wrong
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: just need to start doing their jobs
The Chaos Demon: Let’s ban every activity that does so then, and see what the world turns into.
<lvbat(TDF-TITAN) has left the room>
{ONC}Mordakaida: If it was not for games. I be a prune right now
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: but i don’t go killing people because i am a RESPONSIBLE ADULT
{SBOD}s ninja: i have a question for the you video games are played by billions each year and is a massive part of the industry why do you think they sell
otakuman24: Ouch, burn from Dan
Elric: “ZOMG let’s ban teh porn movies so my child can’t jerk off”…….. It’s not like teenagers don’t go around having sexual intercourse anyway, not gonna work…….
EGLN|_Loaded: BIQ: But still, parents are going to balem the things their children see on the gaming community, not theirselves for letting their child purchase it.
Invader_Akira: I agree with Atomic… I’m working on my degree and I’m married and I haven’t shot anyone or committed acts of violence
Jester: has anyone considered the fact that games help teens? I myself enjoy games such as Rainbow six and CS as a way to get out aggresion
Lunarbunny: They wanted to get GTA out. Hot coffee was programmed in partly, and I’ll tell you that taking things out of a program can be one HELL of a job
insertnamehereizzel: When you hear of the people that killed others because they saw PASSION OF THE CHRIST or GTA, you must FIRST BRING INTO ACCOUNT THEIR MENTAL HEALTH!! Dont say because they played this they killed people
Nodgene: I believe the senator is wrong on a presumption… That parents do not have time to play a video game… Fair enough, but they should take an active interest in what their child does, as such, they should be at least, not alien to video games… What good is a parent if they cannot at least understand what their child is doing? Sure, technology is intimidating, but so are young people… If you want to censor things that children COULD get, because they are not designed for children? Why not go to ban all violent and pornographic movies? Oh, I forgot… Because those are not new things. The majority of the censorship lobby is fanned by neophobia and ignorance of who games are designed for and why people play them. Has the Senator ever played CSS when he feels angry? Does he know how thereputic it is to blow someone’s head off in a game, to save yourself thinking of doing it in-
Lunarbunny: and can break a lot of things
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: simple Ninja… because there is all kinds of games for everyone from everywhere
Nodgene: real life?
Ravenhawk: “Value a child’s innocence” I’m sorry but that is just rediculous. Children grow up, whether you like it or not..
Not a Pie: jester : yeah i know, games doesn’t make ppl violent
Dendei: In response to Senator Yee, I think the act of killing someone in a video game, and killing someone in real life are two completely different acts. A video game does not prepare you to kill a man any more than playing Madden gets you closer to being a quarterback
Invader_Akira: well put Jester… I play CS to relieve stress
Pause: Exactly. Especially in Generation X
EGLN|_Loaded: It was actually reported on a recent scientific study that the heavy, fast paces action in FPS and other games help you see more sharply.
Steel Bear: personaly i don’t see how CS is any worse than a game like rugby/football, where you are actually ramming into others and causing them pain. In my eyes thats an even more violent way to relieve stress… yet no one ever blames a sport for evoking violent feelings in a person.
grammatoneric: Yeah, that factor of the matter is rational people are able to differential between fact and fiction.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the days of Mario brothers are long gone… we’re in a all-out era of Video games
Pause: There IS no innocence frankly
{CIA}Crimson_Might: not every person has a mental problem
§ TexanMan §: parents blame the violence in the video games for their kids behaveuour when its the parents falut
Master Kim: I do.
Kerotan: i think that giving a certain social group, the ablity to censor games rather moral dangerous
[PF] Ertle: ha, innocent children, ive seen a 14 year old doing crack
Master Kim: 😀
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: introducing stunning features, etc…
Peach: again violent people are attracted to violent games its not the games fault its the persons
Julien: In WoW, they should make it less addictive, people have actually died from that game. Except addiction isn’t really talking about censorship.
{SBOD}s ninja: jester i said that earlier and they do i havent been in a fight in 5 years cause i killl fake people instead of hurting real peopl
Katana: Steel Bear: Guns kill, shoulder thrusts don;t
Pause: The fact that 13 year old kids can sit on the computer and search up porn in 3 minutes
Jester: in that case Senator, we should be banning Nerf guns as well
§ TexanMan §: yes
Dark Chili: hell, I’m sure we all play crap loads of violent games and we all haven’t shot anyone, fuck, odds are a virtual swat team is gonna break up this “potentially deadly” meeting of video gamers
§ TexanMan §: even with a blocker
Lunarbunny: 3 minutes? More like 20 seconds.
EGLN|_Loaded: @ Porn: Exactly
Pause: basically proves that innocence is gone, and there’s nothing we can do about it. Kids will do what they will, whether we stop it or not
insertnamehereizzel: If we are going to censor games why aren’t we going to censor porn?
Shattered Moon: Julien, please give me a link to an article relating to WoW deaths.
Not a Pie: pause : we are talking about video games, not porn
[ZiiP]Lazzars: the internet is for 3 things, porn video games and copyright theft
The Chaos Demon: So you should sue blizzard because they made a product that was too good?
Shattered Moon: Otherwise, I call your bluff.
Dark Chili: hell, I got porn on my favorites list and i’m fucking 15
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 20 seconds is still kinda long
[Xfire] SDaria:
So, is there a place for games that incorporate shooting or other forms of person-to-person violence in games marketed for teens and/or pre-teens?
Ravenhawk: Long before violent videogames, children were torturing small animals and beating up smaller kids..
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: :flashbang: this is a raid! put your hands in the air gamers! you’re all under arrest!
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: www.google.com “porn”
Julien: Everywhere you go, everything you search on google, theres always a stupid porn site in every search
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: there you go
§ TexanMan §: thank you for shareing that chlli
♥ wMute ♥: Video Game censorship is a big topic because of it’s growing popularity amongst mainstream crowds. Like music in the 60s, the older generation wasn’t ready and didn’t understand it. The same with video games. Those who attempt to censor it do not understand it
{SBOD}s ninja: no we are talking about censorship and porn is a main topic
EGLN|_Loaded: Minimal things are being done to protect children from porn, while video games are receiving legislature that can possibly make it illegal for someone to buy a game above their age limit
Pause: Not a Pie: I’m comparing it to us, we can’t say that “we value children’s innocence” by censoring, because kids do what they willl either way.
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : yo guys those children use GTA or somehting VIOLENT just to cover up their mental problem. because of this the game companies suffer. now apparently everyone says in AMERICA you can SUE for everything. so thats why they blame GTA or something ELSE
Steel Bear: making WoW less addictive.. let’s make alchohol and drugs less addictive while we’re at it.. the unfortunate side effects? you can’t get drunk/high at will anymore.. and in making WoW less addictive you’d pretty much be left with another crappy MMO
Elric: I hace friends who smoke and are drug addicts (I’m 14), and I know lots of pregnant girls…. so, censoring videogames won’t prevent this xD
Atomic|√êdí³: hmmm
Eizzil: In response to Julien: “In WoW, they should make it less addictive, people have actually died from that game. Except addiction isn’t really talking about censorship.”….: Recent studies have indicated that sometimes video games can be played too excessively, resulting in an addiction. However, all existing hobbies can be carried out to an extreme degree by a few people, but those rare cases should not falsely represent the majority of people with that interest. Excluding the few cases of excessive gaming, it is a healthy hobby which can be compared to hours of playing chess.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: well Loaded
Dark Chili: yeah… makes me seem like a more perverted person now….
Atomic|√êdí³: lets take the video games from kids and give them ciggarettes
Ravenhawk: When I was a kid I knew a lot of violent people
Invader_Akira: I don’t get what’s wrong with porn… It’s a natural thing
{GĔG} ҜĬĿĿĖR: ya..disney might promote that market
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i’m not sure i’d like my 6 years old son to play GTA
{GĔG} ҜĬĿĿĖR: lmao
Jester: in fact
[ZiiP]Lazzars: the WoW thing is don’t to people having inherantly addictive personalities that hadn’t found their neich yet
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or Playboy Mansion
eerofromfinland: this aint no debate, everyones just blindly shouting out their opinions
Ravenhawk: And you know what? The most violent aren’t the videogame players, its the jocks
Dark Chili: Disney pr0n?… gross
Lunarbunny: Teens? Well, it’s hard to say. I considered myself much more mature than the average teen and that’s why I’d want to say no
Seraph: Comparing this to smoking? Thats ridiculos! If there is any proof that videogames physically cause children to become desensitised I would like to see it
{ONC}Mordakaida: It’s not up to the game companies to make sure people don’t play their games.. 10 hours a day.. It’s the persons responsablity to make sure they get rest. if they have to omg just 8 more hours until that next level then drop dead.. it’s not the games fault its the persons fault that he could not wait until the next day to grind a hour to get that next level.
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: a point i just though of, is that we do in fact need to censor some of the more directed violence… violence directed at certain groups of people. if a game had you walking down the street shooting women, or jews, does anybody think that should be allowed to be sold?
[Xfire]Frederic: I think WoW should be banned.
Katana: AGREE
Nodgene: BIQ, do you believe those games are designed for children?
Shattered Moon: No
Skeeb: no
Atomic|√êdí³: WoW is a drug not a video game
Steel Bear: gl with that.. ban drugs and alchohol while ur at it..
Shattered Moon: If you dont want to play WoW, dont.
{GĔG} ҜĬĿĿĖR: ya..its dumb
Dark Chili: smoking? what about weed… or both at the same time!…
Project X: vidoe games are keeping kids occupied from doing drugs or any of that
Pause: Eero: well, with this many people everyone’s gonna blurt out their opinion, there isn’t much room for rebuttal
Dendei: Well, were not talking about cigarettes here. It’s really up to the parent to decide if their teen or pre-teen is ready for a game like that. This doesnt exactly make any direct marketing to that demographic right, but it isn’t exactly wrong either
Shattered Moon: Period
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: 3:22] eerofromfinland: this aint no debate, everyones just blindly shouting out their opinions
–> feel free to respond to other people 🙂
§ TexanMan §: it should be that game companys right to censor the game
AdDiCt: hey, if i was able to quit WoW, then anyone can
Jester: in cops and robbers, the violence is directed at real people, whereas in video games that is not always the case, except in multiplayer
Shattered Moon: If you dont want to see a porn film, dont watch it
The Chaos Demon: Yes, there is a place for FPS games that are made for Teens. If we hide them from bad things in the world, they will frankly live up to become ‘wussies’
AdDiCt: although i can’t quit diablo2
Lunarbunny: I like the Cowboys and Indians comment in the main floor
grammatoneric: Games have just become the current scapegoat for parents failing their children. Before this it was rap music, and before that it was rock music. The truth is people blame what they don’t get. I think that given the fact that gaming is becoming the norm for parents, the entire issue will disappear and 10 years and parents will be blaming the damn flying cars for destroying the youth.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Of course not Nodgene… that’s what im saying… but yet again… these games have ratings… that are obviously not respected by stores holders
Seraph: Once the child is old enough, it is up to the ‘child’
Ravenhawk: Try saying on a podium that sports like football make people violent, it makes more sense, but people don’t buy it.
{SBOD}s ninja: atomic makes a good poiint there how come video game censor ship is big right now when more people die from smoking ciggarets and nobody seems to care?
Pause: @ Gramma: exactly, amen to that 😀
[PF] Ertle: i quit WoW as well, after nearly 2000 hours
Julien: I’ll send everyone a video link of a WoW addict
Lunarbunny: grammat: exactly
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: and rock and roll that was thought to be the devil music
[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB-QUESTION*****
Why should a child be allowed to buy a game that ESRB itself says is inappropriate for children?
Steel Bear: Everyone should ban life. We’re all addicted to it and can’t quit… doesn’t work like that
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i’ve been playing violent games since i was a child, but i always knew the difference because i was taught about ethics, morals, and personal responsiblity. i don’t believe kids should be told the world is free of violence, because it is not. the things that actually happen in the real world are MUCH more appalling than what goes on in game
Atomic|√êdí³: the easiest way to quit wow is by using Herion, which is slightly less addictive then wow
{CIA}Crimson_Might: if its the companys right to do it then its still their game and people will by it for that… but when they are forced to censor it its not hte same game
Julien: http://youtube.com/watch?v=K8hfK3RQs2g
Lunarbunny: In the 30s and 40s it was Swing dancing
♥ wMute ♥: In terms of RObert Putnam’s civil society thesis concerning volunteer groups aiding democracy, the same can be said with CS clans. Because shooters are so popular, it’s less a matter of immersing yourself in what you’re doing. You don’t picture yourself as a SWAT team guy or a TERRORIST, you’re a player on a team trying to play for points. And when you gather younger teenagers into organized leagues, you help democracy because you give teens a chance to learn skill sets they won’t normally learn, and that’s how to organize teams, organizing matches, diplomacy, etc etc
EGLN|_Loaded: Of course there’s a place for games aimed at teens that include violence, it’s called a store. Teens are going to be rebellious, even if someone declares that they can’t play them- they will. For the simple fact they’re not supposed to.
Dark Chili: why is Halo even M… it’s not taht uber violent, Goldeneye was way worse and it only got T
Pause: @ Question: They shouldn’t, the fact thaty they DO is whats wrong currently
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: if he wants to and his parents alow him to
Lunarbunny: why?
insertnamehereizzel: LISTEN TO THIS: if they want to censor games, which has mostly players with good mental health, why not censor things such as porn? My point is that there ARE responsible people that won’t kill people because they played Grand Theft Auto, so WHY PUNISH US because ONE person killed another and played a violent game?
[PF] Ertle: if a child is really spoiled i say they should be allowed to have anything
{GÄ”G} ҜĬĿĿĖR: society needs to grow some balls…. nobody is perfect and you can’t hold back hate forever
§ TexanMan §: a child should NOT be allowed to buy a game that they are underage for
Lunarbunny: If the parents deem their child mature enough, sure
Jester: Senator, I take that as an insult, if I can drive a car, I should have the brain capacity to differentiate between real life and fake games
Lunarbunny: but not “just because”
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Well… Because sellers don’t do their jobs… they want to make the money even if it exposes the young one to something he’s not supposed to be in contact with
Nodgene: Then, surely the emphisis shouldbe on resellers commercial responsibilites, and not the game developers?
{CIA}Crimson_Might: LOL sensor porn?!
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: @ wMute: interesting…
Kerotan: they shouldn’t be allowed, buying a game that a comission have deemed unstuiable for people under that gae is madness
Seraph: Senator yee appears to have never been a child. When I was ten to fourteen I was quite capable of telling the difference between a J.R.R tolkein novel and reality. How is that relevant?
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: when i was 16 and went to get God of war i had to get paretnal consent my paresnt asked what the game was about and then got it for me
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
What about restrictions on content or marketing in games intended primarily for adults? Does anyone advocate that?
insertnamehereizzel: But do you get my point Crimson?
The_Musician: recent psychology research says that kids and teens are far more logical and capable than adults can be.
Ravenhawk: The ESRB rates comic violence lower than realistic violence
Elric: a child should be allowed to buy a game the ESRB considers inappropiate if he is mature enough to understand it’s a game and not real life…
{CIA}Crimson_Might: yes i do
The Chaos Demon: The child shouldn’t be allowed to buy the game that the ESRB RECOMMENDS is innapropriate to the child, but if the parents know that the child understands the content, then why shouldn’t they be able to buy it for him/her?
Pause: I advocate the marketing for adults
Dark Chili: if it’s for adults, why let a kid have it?
Project X: an 8 year old cant just walk into ebgames and buy halo 2 they should be 17 or they dont get it
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Elric
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: restrictions on content for adults????????????????? NO
Kaizer Döuken: Ok, with the Halo 2 & GTA terms I believe that ESRB should come with a new rating for realistic entorned violent games such as GTA type
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it’s not a matter of Real Life or not
[=NA=] §àrgôn: Games that are marketed for adults shouldn’t even be known to anyone under 18
§ TexanMan §: i agree chili
Ravenhawk: And the whole purpose of the ESRB ratings is that the children are not supposed to be able to buy them if they’re not of age for the rating
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: the youth of america would be in an outcry over this (1960’s all over again)
[PF] Ertle: even if games were intended for adults only they would still go to children
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it’s a matter of content he should not be in contact with
AdDiCt: its the exact same thing as movie ratingss.. for some parents the ratings work,… for everoyone else, the kids are gonna see it / play it anyway
{ONC}Mordakaida: I wanted Doom when I was a kid.. My mother said no and if I braught it up again I got punished.. Now days parents dont’ care and just buy that 50 dollar game to shut the child up for a few hours so they can get some quite.
Lunarbunny: Why the hell would the ESRB undermine its rating system by trying to sell M rated games to kids?
Pause: instead of seeing commercials for rated T games on Cartoon Network, lets see those games primarily on Comedy Central
Peach: but what is a ultra violent video game..?
{CIA}Crimson_Might: games for adults? i would take my clan into that 100%
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: at the age of 14 you are not supposed to see someone ripping out organs out of another person
Lunarbunny: The ESRB makes MONEY by rating games
Atomic|√êdí³: again goto best buy, you can buy ghetto-rap and porno, but so help you god if you want a M video game, you need a birth-certificate
{CIA}Crimson_Might: we are 18+
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: even if it’s in a game
Katana: Peach: Postal.
Ravenhawk: It is not the fault of the industry that the children get the M games, its the parents and the stores
eerofromfinland: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Censoring violence from an action/shooter/stragegy game makes no sense at all, its still about warfare, even without the blood, so i’d be as good as beeping the swear words from pr0n, everyone knows exactly whats going on, but the game only looks retarded< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The_Musician: agreed tths
Jester: Senator, your definition of “ultra violent” seems to be any game in which the player perpatrates violence
[ZiiP]Lazzars: games have audiences, GTA and games like it are marketed at adults it just happens that kids love that stuff too. so if you were to market games totally at adults it would make no difference
Shattered Moon: That video is such a gross misrerespentation
Shattered Moon: One person
Dendei: Honestly, I think the marketing should atleast be tasteful. As adults, we don’t need to see anything insanely violent to get the game. As for restricting the actual content of the game though, honestly thats taking things a step too far. If it’s intended for adults, why change the content?
Shattered Moon: out of 8 million
[PF] Ertle: ha
{CIA}Crimson_Might: lets also censor the history channel
Pause: Senator Yee: But who is to say what is “ultra violent?” Standards change over time
{SBOD}s ninja: ……..the whole purpose of the esrb is to help inform parents of what content they are buying for their kids they shouldnt make the decision and kids shoudlnt make the decision
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: violence is a form of art in game
§ TexanMan §: yet i see kids the age of 5 or 6 playing halo then acting like shooting each other in public
EGLN|_Loaded: Are we talking about the psychological effects that the kids could suffer? Because there’s not much. Not much more than they’re exposed to in TV, Movies, etc.
Elric: If a game is targeted to adullts (Like porn games) then they should be sold on adult stores, I mean, you¿ve never seen an H-game on bestbuy, have you?
{SBOD}s ninja: the game companys should make the decision
Skeeb: Ya know what’s funny? I was able to get porn easier than i was able to get a copy of GTA:SA last year…
Lunarbunny: Dendei: Reminds me of the Gears of War advertisement
{ONC}Mordakaida: What is the differnce from GTA then nickalodeans kid games? they both have guns you shoot things with.. Is the difference because a sponge and a racoon are shooting people instead of a pixalated person?
»ÌщS« 1™: 1.
Katana: TexanMan: If the laws prevented JUST THAT I would be happy…
Ravenhawk: Children have been playing “Shoot eachother” much longer than videogames have been around
»ÌщS« 1™: Porn > violence??
Lunarbunny: completely violent game, but the ad was completely nonviolent
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: mogadishu is under siege again and we’re talking about how bad FAKE violence is…………………….
Atomic|√êdí³: Senator Yee repersents the Lazy Parents of America
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: theyre just dancing around the point in the main floor… theyre all finding different ways to say that violent games need to not be given to children… but nobody objects to letting adults have whatever they want in a game…
Ravenhawk: It was called “Cowboys and indians”
♥ wMute ♥: if you were to wiki RObert Putnam’s issues concerning Bowling Leagues and Democracy, he states that volunteer groups like Sports Leagues, Reading Clubs, etc has improved democracy in northern italy. The same is said about a 19th century (or 18th) called Toulouse or something, where he stated that groups where you aren’t paid helps democracy. In terms of Counter-Strike as a league, and a group where young teens group together in organized manner, these teens are introuduced into a whole new world where they are no longer just ‘kids that listen to older people in a hierchical society’ but rather, they run things, they participate and they belong to a community outside of schools and friends
Atomic|√êdí³: who use the PS2 as a babysister
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Well EGLN… it’s all related to Censorship really… because it’s “ok” to judge what’s good for the youth and what’s not
insertnamehereizzel: Why not censor movies? On the topic of censoring games now, and what are movies but long cut scenes in a certain sense. We could’ve made millions off of censoring Saving Private Ryan….
[PF] Ertle: except the indians didnt explode with gore
Jester: All I know, is I can turn on the tv and see more gore in an episode of a late night cable drama than in games like Rianbow Six
insertnamehereizzel: Look we just need more responsible people
Shattered Moon: Plus
Ravenhawk: Carding a good idea, I’d go for carding
<artaxs([Xfire] Artaxs) (Group Admin) has entered the room>
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: once they are old enough they will have plenty of time to discover the sick things that can happen in life
Julien: 5 year olds playing Halo= Too young
{CIA}Crimson_Might: anyone know how the explicit content sticker got on cds? and how twisted sister is connected with it?
eerofromfinland: why not cencor bible? theres more gore and sex in that thing than most games and movies
Lunarbunny: Asking for responsible people is a big leap
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: they dont need to see it all at 13 or 14
[=NA=] §àrgôn: Start censoring one thing, and others will be sure to follow
Shattered Moon: That is not his fault or Blizzard’s fault as much as it is THE PARENT’S fault for letting him PLAY that much.
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: if we censor video games why not every thing in life heck restric the meida from showing things in the iraq war
Jester: id like to hear the names of these non carding retailers, ive never found one
Atomic|√êdí³: Just like anything
{SBOD}s ninja: mordakaida makes a good point its basically the same game with diffrent skins hell even spyro had violence you killed people burnt them and crushed butterflys that bout kills innocence right there
§ TexanMan §: more responsible adults who know why the game is rated and where it is in that game
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: wow eerofromfinland just owned everyone with that one
otakuman24: How does Dan know if many retailers card or not? As an adult, how would he know?
Kerotan: in britain the BFCC, judges if a game is suitable for a certain age rating, if that be 3+ or 18+, and this means that those games shouldn’t be played by people under that age-i do not know why it isn’t like that in the US
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
Is the rating system of the ESRB adequate with respect both to consumer choice and regulation of advertising and sales?
♥ wMute ♥: In terms of restrictions on gaming, some game companies do it for ‘shock value’ while others do it because they do so in a parodical manner, such as GTA. If i were to compare GTA and a game like Postal 2, I would say GTA does it in a cartoonish way while Postal does it in a truly disturbing manner
Skeeb: yes it is
»ÌщS« 1™: yes
Master Kim: No, it is not adequate.
EGLN|_Loaded: @BIQ: TV and Movies are more readily availble to kids than games. I believe that they’ll see violence on TV before gaming.
Project X: its like a snowball effect we censor on thing it goes to anthor and anthor until we cant see anything
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: well i would tell you that there should be no restriction on making an adult game. an adult should be matured and can fully comprehend any graphic obsenities that is portrayed on his/her monitor. being an adult gives them the responsibility to play any thing and view anything they want knowing that it is legitimate. now im not an adult but i expect if i were one when i buy a game i should be allowed to have all the freedom to see what i want and how i want it, whether its censored or not i decide the way it has to be
Atomic|√êdí³: a kid will be able to get it not matter what the parents want
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yes it is adequte i think it should not be changed
[PF] Ertle: i believe the rating system explains it just fine, people just need to look harder
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Ravenhawk: The ESRB has one of the best rating systems of any media, it is far superior to that of any other form of media….
Pause: Yes it is, the problem is that Parent’s aren’t paying attention to it
Elric: I played Doom when i was 3 years old, and I’m not a violent person (I’m 14), I’m an excellent student and I’ve never commited any agresive actions towards other people…..
insertnamehereizzel: Carding IMO is the best thing to do. If we carded and TRUELY TOLD PARENTS what was in the game they were buying I GARENTEE YOU that parents will not let them get it
»ÌщS« 1™: Your face isnt adequete
[PF] Ertle: they just dont understand what it means
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: SDaria, it sure is, i’d say ESRB’s job is flawless on 99% of the games
[PF] Ertle: burn
{ONC}Mordakaida: Heck.. I’m 24 and if I play to much games my mother comes over to my house and takes my ear pulling me off the game..
The Chaos Demon: Yes, the ESRB is the perfect system, but some people are never happy with things and they want it change.
Katana: Elric: Grades. Now.
Seraph: The Gears of War advert was extremely tasteful considering its content. That would NOT be sold to minors here in the uk
Master Kim: The ESRB system is good.
EGLN|_Loaded: Yeah, I agree that the ESRB is a good system.
[=NA=] §àrgôn: i agree it is
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: there only really need to be two ratings: one for responsible people who can think for themselves, and one for stupid kids and other related imbeciles
Master Kim: It’s just that sometimes they mess up.
»ÌщS« 1™: I AGREE
Jester: ive never seen a commercial on network television explaining the esrb, that might do some good
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: The only problem yet again is that stores just won’t respect the system
Shattered Moon: ESRB needs to be moar detailed than anything.
♥ wMute ♥: ESRB is like movie ratings for movies downloaded on the net. nobody can restrict it. same with games
Ravenhawk: The issue isn’t innaccurate ratings, it is stores not enforcing those ratings
Dark Chili: look, by censoring anything, you’re fucking over some rights that we have as humans, we can do whatever the fuck we want as long is it doesn’t fuck over other people.. that’t in the Bill of Rights somewhere without all the fucks but it’s the same principle. All these censor dudes like Thompson are invading our space. Where does the line between freedom and communism begin? Where is our individuality by playing these games!?
§ TexanMan §: the ESRB is too light with the rateing system
Project X: i think it i8s but shoukd have more ratings
Pause: Instead of censoring, we need to find a way for PARENTS to become more involved in the rating system
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: well atleast most of us agree on the ESRB on beiong good
Kerotan: yes the rating sytem is fine, there just needs to be restrictions from people buying 18s+ when they are 10
Lunarbunny: too light? I think they’re doing fine
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so basicly… the ESRB rating becomes futile as soon as it leaves the box to hit the store shells
»ÌщS« 1™: Your face is too light
{ONC}Mordakaida: The rating system is great.. It should prevent the kids from buying the game but not the parents to buy the game for the child.
Pause: Chili: Be light with the profanity please
Dark Chili: sorry
EGLN|_Loaded: @Dark Chili, but we’re discussing what would be best for the children. A child doesn’t have the freedoms that we adults do.
The Chaos Demon: There used to be ESRB commercials a lot more, but now there isn’t that much.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: actually a true communist country wouldn’t censor anything
Katana: I hate how people misuse the word “freedom”
[PF] Ertle: it could be rated X but if someone buys it for them it wouldnt matter
§ TexanMan §: they dont rate some games hard enough
Ravenhawk: True ideed, PizZap
insertnamehereizzel: But what is ESRB based on? I’ve seen Teen games that could be under category of Mature, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE BUYERS MATURITY
.:ハルマゲドン:.: So far ESRB did a great job with their rating system, so I believe its the best option available right now
Lunarbunny: example?
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Master Kim: Let’s talk about Oblivion–why is it that the ESRB notice just gives it a Teen rating when there’s blood, gore, use of alcohol, suggestive themes, etc. and then rerate it as Mature when some modder finds a nude skin in the game?
Jester: thank you Dennis
Lunarbunny: other than oblivion or GTASA
§ TexanMan §: gta \
Master Kim: That’s just retarded.
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grammatoneric: The truth is every aspect of our lives have aspects that are inappropriate for children. TV, Movies, books, even the bible has parts that children are not capable of understanding and frankly shouldn’t be exposed to. It doesn’t mean that we need to take everything adult out of the world to coddle our children. It means we need to explain things to our children and we need to determine as parents what they are ready to see or not.
Pause: No problem, I heated too but this is a debate xD Anyways, While we do have freedom of speech, there ARE some cases in which FCC can censor, however i think video games isn’t one of those cases
»ÌщS« 1™: It gives it an M rating
Dendei: No, I think it could use some improvements. For starters, there doesn’t seem to be any line as to what makes your game AO and not M. The majority of games are released as M, with only a very select few making it into AO. On top of that, any one who works in game retail can tell you that parents simply don’t get the rating system. Persoanally I think it should mimic the way movies are rated, which is a system parents already understand quite well
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the thing is… Store clerks will only watch if there’s a massive gap between the game and the person buying it
»ÌщS« 1™: wtf are you talking about
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: just because ou are older than some one it dosen’t mean you are better than them
Elric: Grades: I live in Mexico, so they’re in a 1-10 scale, I never get grades lower than 9, and I’m applying for a scholarship after finishing high school, got 90%!!
[PF] Ertle: because its historical/fantasy
eerofromfinland: oh and checking ID at the store doest work actually, if the kids want the game, theyll get it, illegally over the internet or play it at friends house
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: like… for exemple… if a 13 years old kid wants to buy Playboy Mansion
Pause: Censoring? No, Raising Awareness? Yes.
digimediafinance: Sen. Yee raises some interesting points regarding the matter of psychology and media, wrt regulation. Can he point to any history of regulation in other media or other areas at all, where the rational basis for the legislation relied upon scientific knowledge of cognitive abilities and changes in a perswon’s brain, and if there are any cases, how are they similar or different from the issue of regulating games?
The Chaos Demon: But when buying a game for your child, at least LOOK at the box. “Hmmm rated M due to alchohol use, violence, and gore?”
Lunarbunny: well, there is the issue with the fact that most mainstream retailers will not carry AO title
Lunarbunny: titles*
Katana: Pause: Epic quote there
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: there’s 99% of the chances you’re going to hear a No
♥ wMute ♥: Teacher once said: The more you restrict something, the mods kids want it. Kids want the rated M stuff cause it’s out of their reach. If you teach them that they don’t need it, they won’t want it. And it’s better than restrciting something
Julien: I agree with chaos demon
[PF] Ertle: famous last words
Master Kim: That’s like saying the same thing with drugs.
insertnamehereizzel: lets give LIFE am M rating because cussing and sex is too bad for children
Trigger: thats right wMute
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: GTA AND HALO 2 should be rated the same as said in the main room. look at halo2 the ESRB would say violence, GTA would have violence drugs and sex if present. i have hitman bloodmoney it has all 3 of them the games not censored even when you kill someone thats how it should be
Ravenhawk: The problem is, the game may have a high rating which is innapropriate for children, and yet the TV is still allowed to show the ads on children’s networks?
{SBOD}s ninja: yeah true parents are the ultimate factor in what a child plays, if the parent does something the kid cant the kids will try to immitate till he gets it right so if a kids see a parent playing gta then the kid wants to play gta so if we censore games from kids we have to censore all games to make sure that no kid ever see the things we dont want them to see
Eternal Sun: lol way to get wound up
The_Musician: you could have game teseters rate games. they play through the full game.
Dark Chili: live deserves like…. something the ESRB hasn’t made
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: YEE HAS NO IDEA what he is talking about the reseach useing games is biased on both sides only 2 reseachers have been able to been unbiased and both sieds have disreagrded them
{SBOD}s ninja: and this leads to the big brother effect
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: ill restate several points into a single paragraph, maybe someone will read it, with all this chaos maybe not… directed violence towards groups needs to be censored, but after that all we need is a wider rating range, and a better way of enforcing it….
Pause: Really ,the fact that video games keeps our children inside the house is basically censoring real life haha.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: insertnamehereizzel … oh so you cuss and you talk about sex with 8 years olds ?
EGLN|_Loaded: The ESRB is fine, but they can’t really get those ideas more accesible to the public.
The Chaos Demon: The ESRB changed the oblivion rating from T to M right? The copy I have of it is T, but the later ones I’ve seen in stores is rated M.
§ TexanMan §: i resent that
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: oh speaking of increasing a rating for alcohol content: america has the highest drinking age in the world, AND the highest alcoholism rate in the world. this is because of the “forbidden fruit” phenomenon i mentioned earlier
[PF] Ertle: and what rating do you think it should have that the esrb doesnt have
EGLN|_Loaded: They should look into PSAs, as the senator said.
Master Kim: Yes, they did rerate it Mature.
insertnamehereizzel: no…
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: i said that earlyer to PizZ
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: then rating “M” is perfect
otakuman24: Dennis, be serious
{ONC}Mordakaida: What get’s me is that some stores will only sell cencsored music but when it comes to games.. they are like sure why not. I do not like my games/music or anything else censored. If i do not want my kids to watch/play/see something .. then I tell them they can’t.

The_Musician: PSAs would alert parents
Kaizer Döuken: yea but HALO 2 is fantasy tye while GTA is realistic in which you can commit crimes such as RL
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Prohibition any one
Lunarbunny: ESRB does *some* PSAs
Julien: The game creators are rating the games because they know what they put into the game
Lunarbunny: but not enough
Kaizer Döuken: type*
Lunarbunny: remember the Tiger Woods ads?
Dark Chili: maybe like JO – Jesus Only, cause apparently he’s the only one who doesn’;t sin, he’s the onlyone who can handle life, he’s the onlyone who knows where the respawn points are
grammatoneric: Is anyone in this room actually for censorship? Because it sounds like everyone just wants the concenus that not all games are for children.
The_Musician: more lols
EGLN|_Loaded: PSAs would be goof for ESRB and parents.
§ TexanMan §: why even game a game like gta
Pause: I say if anything, kids should wait until 18 to buy games on their own. I mean really, before that, when do kids actually HAVE their own money to waste on games
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
If you had to rate a game in the Grand Theft Auto series, what would you rate it? Should this video game be available for purchase by children? At what age should kids be able to buy this game without their parents’ permission.
Jester: thats ridiculous Senator
Katana: PSA! PSA! PSA!
Jester: If I can drive
Skeeb: 17 w/o
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Peach: i think 18 is the age you should be able to buy games on your own
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: it’s hard to find gamers who want to censor their own games
Pause: M for mature, without a doubt
Julien: A jesus only rating ROFL
[ZiiP]Lazzars: its a good point to say that game sencorship is taken out of context, as a whole game cannot be played to be censored. as soon as something bad is found that would push it to another level then there has to be a revision of the rating otherwise the additional content would be easy to exploit
Atomic|√êdí³: the problem is that they dont believe that parents need to be responable, because no matter how much you regulate the games, kids will always be able to get them.
Master Kim: ESRB should have rated Oblivion Mature from the start, but instead they let the fact that there’s some silly nude skin get them all flustered.
eerofromfinland: PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw; dont be silly, everyone knows that Finns use most alchohol ;p
Elric: Why not banning cigarettes then? people die more of smoking than anything
otakuman24: He does have a point that 18 is arbitrary, but it is the legal age
Lunarbunny: I say M, and NOT to children
Pause: because by this time, Parents know the danger, they just aren’t proactive
nongamer1: The ESRB does ratings education that generates over a BILLION consumer impressions on an annual basis
{ONC}Mordakaida: hmm GTA.. I think it should be 17+
Kaizer Döuken: I believe 16-17 is more appropiate
♥ wMute ♥: ESRB Ratings are irrelevent and ignored.
nongamer1: TV, radio, print, online
Elric: I think a “child” should be able to buy a GTA game without parent’s permission at the age of 14-15
{SBOD}s ninja: im fore censorship to be there but not totally killing the fun
[PF] Ertle: if its a game you can pay a hooker to have sex with you, it should have the strictest rating
{CIA}Crimson_Might: GTA sucks so i would rate it M for morbidly a waste of money
§ TexanMan §: the gta series past the 3rd one should all be rated ao
Pause: But one thing i don’t see the point in is the M vs. AO ratings
-|HR|-Mugzzzy: If the “forbidden fruit” is the problem as you say, let’s make marijuana, pornography, and firearms available to kids too so that they don’t use them also.
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
What is your opinion of the “virtual world” called Second Life? The content is created entirely by the “residents” of this world and ranges from mild to what some might consider pornographic; of course it is a site for social encounters of every kind. Is Linden Lab’s approach of dividing Second Life strictly into a Main Grid (18+) and Teen Grid (13-17) the right one to take?

insertnamehereizzel: If parents are complaining about video games being bad, lets seriously look at our society. Murders, suicides, gangs….. I’d rather focus on fixing whats wrong in life than video games.
♥ wMute ♥: children do more ‘rated m’ stuff than people who can buy ‘rated m’ stuff
Kerotan: 18+, no you shouldn’t, and i don’t think you should ever be allowed to buy a game with parents permission
Dendei: Honestly? I would rate it M.
AdDiCt: GTA should be 18+ and much more violent with lots more drug use and sex
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: the kids should be able to buy the game at the age of around 17-18 its
Elric: I got my copy of SA legally and I’m 14, and as I stated, I’m not a violent person in any way
Nodgene: GTA 18+ It’s adult. You go around killing people! Fun stuff, but not for chilren.
Master Kim: Mmm, forbidden fruit.
Skeeb: 13-17 WoW? I’ll be in the 18+ one ty
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Well SDaria… from “Mature” to “Adult” is good… but i think the best way to control that thing is… You do like in Video Rentals stores… for all movies under 18+ … it’s in the main room of the store… and for what’s 18+ … you put it in a second room in the back
otakuman24: Online interaction is hard, if not impossible to control
Lunarbunny: Hmmm…
Shattered Moon: Second Life is my mistress and WoW is my wife
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: just like in Video Rental stores
EGLN|_Loaded: I have to say that I hate second life.
Jester: I think if you have the brain development to drive, you sure as hell should be able to buy M games
.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: go to the ESRB web site they go on to the NYC streets and grab people to rate games if all the people they grab are against GTA (rather unlikely) they game will get a AO rating
Lunarbunny: the grids idea is good
Pause: I can’t add to this point seeing as how i’ve never played SL
otakuman24: And what is to stop people ages 13-17 from making pornographic material on SL?
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i haven’t played it. if it’s not an FPS i don’t want to play it. SKILLZ
Lunarbunny: and it’s an example of the system REGULATING ITSELF
Dark Chili: GTA – Rated AO for “you frigging rip peoples gutz out and flamethrowerz and shit!” and sell it to people who pass a dumbass test, if you fail the test, you may be someone who would fuck up an entire school or be an uber n00b online to people
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: You won’t see a 13 years old kid going in the Porno section
{SBOD}s ninja: ____________ QUESTION_______________
…..what if there was a way for games to be censored for the kids but not for the older people would that make people happy?
The Chaos Demon: Yes, the grid system in second life is amazing.
Kaizer Döuken: I also believe there should be rating between T and M
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Nodgene: Second life should be adult only. It’s far too engrossing and requires a fluent understanding of social functioning to be really used.
Seraph: Might consider pornographic? Its possible to have sex for money in game, how much more pornographic can you get? Of course splitting it into two sections is the right way to go
Elric: never played SL…..
§ TexanMan §: if you have a life why do you need second life
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it would be the same in a Video game store
Dendei: While I agree it need’s to be split, they don’t enforce it very well. It just isn’t hard at all for an underage person to get into those servers
EGLN|_Loaded: People must spend real money to buy products ingame
insertnamehereizzel: I can’t follow this, its jumping very fast…
Pause: Dendei: but at least they would have tried
otakuman24: Thing that gets me is that I’m witnessing a few issues that really need to be focused on
Smiling Coyote: The problem with setting age requirements lies in how easily they can be surmounted or evaded. You want to keep a game out of a kid’s hands? What’s to keep him from pirating it? Software piracy is a very real and extremely easy way to obtain games of all sorts and ratings. The same goes for Second Life and its “divided” grid. What’s to keep the kid from lying about his age or other information?
Katana: yeah, and you need to be a certain age to have a credit card, so second life is covered
The Chaos Demon: If every MMO had that it’d be very great. You could join a 13-17 server, +18 server, and a ‘All age server”
Not a Pie: Do you think playing an online game improve the interactiion between them and the community?
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: its easier to follow if u widen ur text box to fill the screen
The_Musician: i disagree with his idea of barring off online games. online games shouldnt have restrictions, you could make rooms for different ages.
tos.meslin: HI GUYS
Skeeb: Parental controls work wonders for those who use em
eerofromfinland: can we PLEASE slow down a bit
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EGLN|_Loaded: While this seems good, giving someone a social encounters other than real life, but it also promotes that people don’t need human interaction.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Not bad of an idea Chaos Demon
§ TexanMan §: insted of buying a ingame object with real cash y not just save up for the real thing
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i had a credit card before i was 18
[Xfire] Artaxs: How do you deal with people who offend you in any MMO? You /ignore them. ^^
Atomic|√êdí³: question
.:ハルマゲドン:.: GTA like games are not meant to be played by kids in the first place, such violence and strong language is not suitable for people younger than 16-17
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but yet again… how do you control who gets in which room
Eizzil: Most kids are exposed to everything in the GTA series by age 13.
Dendei: They barely do, they simply ask for your age and a credit card. And with all these prepaid credit cards out there, it really isnt that hard
Atomic|√êdí³: how do kids play MMORPGS when they are pay to play?
[Xfire] SDaria:
How do we deal with person-to-person interaction in game spaces online?
eerofromfinland: damn this place should have sub-rooms for actual debates
Kaizer Döuken: I agree with harumagedon
♥ wMute ♥: the thing is, GTA is genius in terms of what it parodies. Most kids at a younger age don’t understand most of the references.
Pause: I think person-to-person is fine with regulation
grammatoneric: lol
Atomic|√êdí³: Kill the other person?
[PF] Ertle: well we can have monitors in chat rooms
The Chaos Demon: The only down-point of that would be if you play a game for 4 years, you’re 15, and you’re on 13-17 server, would you need to switch?
Peach: nothing needs to be done
{ONC}Mordakaida: um.. Ignore everyone hehe
[Xfire] Artaxs: There are many Free MMOs — especially the ones coming out of South Korea.
Jester: social reaction in most online games doesnt really matter, because the game does not allow for realistic sexual acts in game
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: with admins! ban kick slap and slay!
Dark Chili: stop calling people n00bz
Ravenhawk: Ratings only work when people pay attention to them. If you buy a “cool looking” game without looking at the rating, you can’t complain that the high rating game got to people..
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: well i see having them as a guideline being set in between. for example if all ages can play the main age should be 15-16 then it states that online expirience can change the game rating as they always do. or else they just implement a censor when the player puts in thier age when signing up they censor according to age
Peach: if someone messes with you, you just ignore them
§ TexanMan §: there should be vertiual cops that moniter the rooms
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Depends on the context and the game i guess
Jester: a simple language filter is enough
{SBOD}s ninja: we dont
Dark Chili: cause they are n000bs themselves
Pause: because at times people become so addicted that they become another WoW fanatic that locks themselves in a room for hours at a time
insertnamehereizzel: Its almost impossible to deal with person-to-person interaction in game spaces online…
Nodgene: What do you mean deal with? SDaria? You’re too vauge, please rephrase?
Not a Pie: Do you think an online video game can improve the interaction between the gamer and the community?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: if it’s a FPS i’ll shoot the guy
Elric: We can’t deal with p2p interaction in games.
Atomic|√êdí³: I play CoD2, I meet nice people
Atomic|√êdí³: then kill them
eerofromfinland: Language filters should be BANNED i say
Peach: and gms have the power to kick/ban people abusing with people
[ZiiP]Lazzars: not again with second life, if people want to play that they need to accept that it may indeed be like a different life, regardless of what it throws at them you can’t complain as the unpredictable nature of second life is what makes it what it is
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in a MMORPG i try to see if he can be of any use to me
Pause: once again, PARENTS should be regulating online time and person-to-person interaction
Lunarbunny: Consider WoW. Millions of people – how would you regulate ALL of the interactions?
Seraph: Are they suggesting censoring MSN, or even xfire?
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: For instance interaction between people in WoW
Trigger: it will be virtually impossible to control the interaction…all that can prevent it is the use of a credit card for age verification,even then the children will lie to their parents about what goes on in the game. It comes down to parental control.
§ TexanMan §: not true
»ÌщS« 1™: For instance:
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Lunarbunny you cant
»ÌщS« 1™: Cant stop that
[Xfire] Artaxs: (Please, no all-caps shouting here.)
Project X: yes a filter and some peopel to watch what u do and ounish you if u do somting wrong
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: there should be a moderator who can be reported if the people report abuse, just like HABBO HOTEl but the game masters really work in it
§ TexanMan §: WATCH UR mouth
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: the admins can stop you
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but yet again… you cant expect to catch all the kids who watch porn
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: and they’re about to right now
otakuman24: To deal with P2P interaction online, it’s really going to be tricky as that equates to the regulations of chat rooms.
{ONC}Mordakaida: Not for me Not a Pie.. I play many mmos and I tend to play alone no matter what. If the game has Henchmen then that is perfect for me.. I like to play alone and only talk if I have to

Peach: yes you can stop that admins or gms can kick you out
Shattered Moon: Precisely!!
Lunarbunny: B.I.Q. exactly my point
Eizzil: Both MMORPGs and FPSs require an elevated level of teamwork and communication skills, along with the ability to collaborate strategies.
Shattered Moon: The admins can stop you
The Chaos Demon: So due to barriers like that, making seperated servers for young people and old people would be pretty hard. Also you’d have to watch out for those child touchers.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so there’s always a way to escape the system
Dark Chili: I meet many people playing CSS and stuff, most people don’t seem to realize that there’s real people in there and they all decide to be dicks to everyone
insertnamehereizzel: ONline is totally up to the player
Dendei: It’s hard to say really, I guess you offer some decent parental controls so they can play, but the parents decide what they can experience
Nodgene: WoW I found to have a very friendly environment. People helped you if you were in trouble… Mind you, I’d rather go around with my friends raping and pillaging in the virtual world. It’s fun, and removes the urge to do it in the real world.
otakuman24: And even a 13 year old can swear, just like how swear words pass around at school
grammatoneric: We don’t need to create concersation police in the digital world, your child can hear innapropriate things in the real world just as easily. Believe me if you have ever been to a Denny’s while I was there you heard swearing and I’m sorry if it turned your child into a monster.
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Kerotan: players in an online world do so particpate in that world that own risk, GM can regulate the game like police men, but stuff happens while plauing MMOs which is almost imposible to encouunter
{SBOD}s ninja: thats the glory of playing online you can be who you really are you dont have restrictions placed on how you act online and it gives you the ultimate freedom which is why poeple want to take that away from us cause even in america we arnt free cause we have to follow the laws and those laws limit our freedom
Lunarbunny: we have millions of people online, thousands of ways to contact each other
Shattered Moon: When a parent buys a game for the child that is online, they entrust the admins to help to an extent.
Kerotan: *counter
Lunarbunny: there’s no way to police that
Julien: This is supposed to be about video game censorship, so we shouldn’t have anyone swearing her lol
eerofromfinland: nothing pisses me off more than poorly set language filter, especially if you cant switch it off, because enlgish isnt my native language and they usually seem to consider wode variety of Finnish words offensive
[PF] Ertle: the internet is like antartica, it belongs to relativley nobody specific
Pause: Sattered Moon: but isn’t that them just making admins babysitters to some extent?
Julien: *here
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Yes otaku, but they swear because they hear it somewhere
♥ wMute ♥: People should be taught not to have to take any online harassment, rather than trying to ‘moderate’ this sort of negative behavior. It’s up to those that are involved from p2p, with no 3rd parties.
[PF] Ertle: so you only govern what little you own
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Elric: exactly, Internet belongs to the people
Not a Pie: Do you think an online video game can improve the interaction between the gamer and the community?
insertnamehereizzel: Playing online is like going into the lions den, the lion might be there or it might not…. It is virtually impossibile to moderate online games
EGLN|_Loaded: When a parent buys a game for a child that is above their ESRB rated age, the parent should expect the child to be mature enough to handle situations the child is put in.
Dark Chili: For a child’s sake… “Michael Jackson = worse than voilent video games
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Lunarbunny: I personally thing that the receiver of any abuse should report the abuser
Project X: i mean u still hear in ceral commercials Ask Your Parents For Premisooin Before Going Online
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§ TexanMan §: there should be a strict age limit to be playing games online or the kids who do play online should be aware of what is going on
Lunarbunny: it doesn’t take that long and you’ll feel good doing it
Kaizer Döuken: For online multi conten games there should be heavy campaings that should alert parents, and there also should be a new rating for this type of games since you can experience an E type of experience as such as an M type
Julien: True, true
The Chaos Demon: I think that when technology reaches a high points, some developer will find a way to solve the problem of Online play and social interaction, because quite frankly, right now this hobby attracts a lot of ‘jacka**es’
Skeeb: Now if we could get rid of sqeaukers in Halo 2…
Master Kim: Amen.
♥ wMute ♥: there should be no restrictions on gaming whatsoever.
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insertnamehereizzel: Subliminal advertising is to blame…
Seraph: They should try legislation bad language, violence and guns in schools – That worked out well
♥ wMute ♥: if you restrict something, people will find a way to access it.
eerofromfinland: that thompson guy should be banned from TV, he gives kids bad impression about adults
AdDiCt: don’t report him, fight back with knowledge (or violence if you’re stupid)
§ TexanMan §: so your saying no ESRB?
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : NEXt QUEstion PLEASE 🙂
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: they should put something into the gamesystems, that requires a game retailer to activate something that allows M rated games to be played, and to get it activated, a parent must be present… and if we had several more ratings, the parent could specificly state what kind of games would be allowed without having to see all the games the kids play.
Pause: Squeakers will always be there, and quite frankly, squeakers are the kids who need regulating from parents
[PF] Ertle: nothing i love more than to hear a 13 year old playing halo with me
Seraph: Sarcasm
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: True wMute
Shattered Moon: The only problems with parental education is that many automatically assume the worst of their child.
Skeeb: yup
insertnamehereizzel: BLAME THE ADVERTISING!!! They make killing and murder look COOL!!
TDF-TITAN: no restictions!!!!!!!11
Lunarbunny: Chaos Demon: I’m thinking of penny arcade’s “Internet F***wad Theory”
Atomic|√êdí³: does it bother anyone else that the US Congress is spending money looking at video games, not on Iraq of terrorism?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but, it’s good to restrict abusively violent games to young kids
Shattered Moon: yeap
Atomic|√êdí³: or*
Julien: I think in any online game with voice chat, voice chat should be removed because all of the people swearing into their microphones
Skeeb: They always will be there, and thats what mute was invented for >.>
{SBOD}s ninja: iraq is pretty much over dude
♥ wMute ♥: Anything that is restricted in video games must be restricted in real life as well. And in schools, they’ll try to stop any kind of abuse or whatever, but the keyword is TRY. They CANT do it.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i don’t want my 6 years old neice to play Gears of war… come on
Trigger: Its just that games are the current whipping boy, just as music was in the 80s
Atomic|√êdí³: SBOD I am in hte Military
Master Kim: Agreed.
otakuman24: I STRONGLY oppose regulating game content. I think that is terrible
Kaizer Döuken: I believe heavy campaings to alert parents is more viable than making laws against it
Seraph: Julien I think you should step outside into the real world
Atomic|√êdí³: Its not over for me
Lunarbunny: every age has their whipping boy
[PF] Ertle: if you dont want your child to play a game its up to you to stop them
Trigger: correct
The Chaos Demon: Speaking of the -14 year olds on xbox live, THEY’RE the ones who are spreading the curses and making people quit due to just giving up.
Lunarbunny: Swing…Pinball…
Shattered Moon: It’s not over till everyone is home
Project X: it defintily bothers me we are lsoign troops over seas while they worry that a kid playing gta and shhoting sombody
otakuman24: When you regulate game content, it’s censorship at its purest
eerofromfinland: ]Atomic|√êdí³: doesnt bother me at all, im not american ;p
Shattered Moon: Period
Atomic|√êdí³: lol
Elric: I don’t think voice chat should be removed, but we should really find a way around 8 years old who only shout “fuck you!! fuck you!!” and are complete noobs……
Atomic|√êdí³: well
[PF] Ertle: way of the world, you really cant depend on anyone but yourself
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Ertle.. a parent can’t be there 24/7
Atomic|√êdí³: there you go
Katana: Hal’s wrong, the percentage is more like 88%-12%, THE OTHER WAY ROUND
Kerotan: as said before you use online games at your own risk, the devs can’t anticpate the human element
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
What are your thoughts on the controversy about whether Seung-Hui Cho played video games and whether that might have played a role in the Virginia Tech killings?
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the sellers have to do their job
Peach: which is why the game is rated M for mature
♥ wMute ♥: GTA is basically the Mortal Kombat of the 21st century. The difference is video games have a bigger audience.
otakuman24: It’s saying you can’t make that, and even if it is pornographic, that’s like saying Hugh Hefner can’t make Playboy magazine
{ONC}Mordakaida: Yes.. it is up to the parents to teach and dicpline their children not the game companies/laywers “u know who” or the goverment
otakuman24: Or include inserts
otakuman24: and pin ups
Peach: kids like to think that cussing is cool
Pause: Like i said before, its just a scapegoat
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: This is RIDICULOUS
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Lunarbunny: a parent cannot be there 24/7, but they can talk to their kids
Dark Chili: cause it fucking is
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Nodgene: Julien, your attitude is somewhat concerning. How are you so offended at little words? I would be more offended if someone made a racist or sexist comment than if they swore in a setence.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: no games pushes someone to massacres, executions and suicide
EGLN|_Loaded: @14 year olds on XBLive- These are the kids who’s parents blame gaming for their child’s cursing
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.:ハルマゲドン:.: it sure is
grammatoneric: Why would a parent have to be there 24/7? If a parent does thier job their child will know how to behave even in their absence.
♥ wMute ♥: The VTech killings and the relation to video games was nothing more than news media sensationalism where video games were only ASSUMED to be the problem because of the columbine.
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Seraph: The man had serious mental issues such as depression. They wiuld LOVE to blame it on videogames, as that would distract attention from the gun control issue it raised
insertnamehereizzel: IMO games have nothing to do with the VT Killings. Look at the persons mental health before blaming the game!!!
{SBOD}s ninja: yeah but think about it we have control of iraq basically and yet we still call it a war were now defending but this is just what i gather from the news
Lunarbunny: good point about XBL
[ZiiP]Lazzars: its not really an issue of cencorship on Xbox live its an issue of maturity, is 14 mature enough to take dying? i think the many coments on the subject prove that they are not
Elric: That is a ridiculous theory, the influence of DOOM on DYLAN and KLEBOLD at least had facts……
AdDiCt: everyone plays games in some form or another… its like saying “music” caused him to kill them, or “swimming”
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i mean… CSS is one of the most played games on earth
Jester: I agree Russ
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Pause: I addressed that issue before, all it is is a scapegoat, since they can’t blame it on others who noticed that he was literally insane
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§ TexanMan §: its people who beleave games can cause death
Dark Chili: what about numa numa guy…. there’s much worse things than voilence on the net
Atomic|√êdí³: Is this all over that nutcase in Virgina?
♥ wMute ♥: tthe fact that they found no games in his room shows that the media was merely trying to add an angle to a story where they was no angle needed.
Dendei: Honestly, I feel that the claims are baseless. The search warrent turned up no video games at all. The only reference we have of him EVER playing games was in high school over 4 years ago
Eizzil: Cho was also a creative, passionate writer, which can often be a hobby of young people who commit violence. So why is Thompson so quick to blame gaming when his arguments apply to creative writers, or any common hobby these young criminals have, too? This just further demonstrates how weak his arguments are, which are clearly based on assumptions and opinions rather than facts and solid evidence. The media and anti-game advocates seem to be conjuring up a threat which does not exist.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and it’s the first time i ever hear someone would’ve been influenced by the game in question
Lunarbunny: I don’t think DOOM did anything for columbine
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: into a Violent action
Atomic|√êdí³: Because its all guns and video games fault that happened, not that fact that his parents where shitty
otakuman24: Thank you Dan Isett! I like that response
[PF] Ertle: i saw on TV that he was deranged his entire life so i doublt that playing games considerably increased his chances of killing people
Pause: Eizzil: i resent the “creative writer.” Even his writings were morbid and macabre
Lunarbunny: I think that they were just enfatuated with murder and that was one place they could pretend to do it
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the frustration and madness of someone
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: can not be boosted by games
{ONC}Mordakaida: My mom was a single parent for many years.. She did not have to be home every second to teach us. She taught us to respect and honor and obey.. Not jump around with 10 pounds of suger in us
otakuman24: Oh boy, here we go, Jack Thompson came up
Dark Chili: everyone who’s shot up a school was already insane or emo or a dumbfuck
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: i see this as a cover up, a person didnt kill those innocent because of that. he killed them because he must have been provoked alot by them and he had a mental illness.
The Chaos Demon: He did play games according to the media and it might and might not be true. But putting that aside, if video games wouldn’t have existed I’m absolutely sure that he would still kill those people.
§ TexanMan §: doom didnt do anything its the dumb teens who made it think
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Kerotan: cho didn’t play video games, and even if he did, they were not the cause of his problems, more or less his problems were caused by being a social outcast and having easy access to a gun
♥ wMute ♥: Video Games is like the scapegoat, go-to reason for everything. It’s easier to go to a scapegoal that you can rely on than trying to understand the real psychological reasons behind the killings and what the news media did was… they went the easy road.
Lunarbunny: I already mentioned JT about 20 minutes ago
Seraph: Videogames are simply a very very useful scapegoat, they even tried to blame 9/11 on microsoft flight simulator for teaching the terrorists how to fly
Elric: I dont think DOOM did anything too, but still, It was a better theory than the VTech one about Cho
Lunarbunny: true
Trigger: Humans crave an easy explanation for everything, relating everything back to video games is merely the simplest excuse available right now
[HL] Tru7h: I agree, wMMute
EGLN|_Loaded: There has to be an underlying cause for a person to kill people. Video Games can’t give people the motivation to do it, it’s impossible.
Lunarbunny: just remember the “Columbine Levels” are an urban legend
{SBOD}s ninja: actually atomic this is all over the virgina nut case as far as i can tell cause they got really pissed at the columbine and now this one happens and they think its video games
grammatoneric: I love the myth that video games turn kids into killers, since the fact is violence among kids and young adults has actually decreased significantly since doom came out.
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: theres a large difference in the types of violence in DOOM, and GTA… DOOM is vs monsters, which is make believe. GTA is much much closer to real life…
Pause: Trigger: not only that, but they seem to jump to conclusions when it comes to things they know nothing about
Peach: Cho had a problem, videogames did not make him violent, he was violent before he found the games
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: blame everything but capitalism itself for sucking the life out of society and turning it’s members into zombies
-|HR|-Mugzzzy: Why not change the gun control laws, which is where the real problem lies instead of trying to censor a medium that can’t be adequately censored anyway.
§ TexanMan §: gta is evil
Lunarbunny: GTA is so over the top though
Lunarbunny: not that kids should play it

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: basicly 99% of the people under 35 years old
[PF] Ertle: no, Postal is over the top
Elric: yup, Columbine wads are urban legends……
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: have spent over a 100 hours in their life
insertnamehereizzel: You hear on the media that he played this and it caused him to do that. Look for the signs parents, check out their mental health, for all we know Cho could’ve been suicidal since 15 and held it in until he just wanted to end his life.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: playing video games
Atomic|√êdí³: again that fruitcake Cho whould have killed if guns and video games were illegal
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: kids cant tell GTA isnt real life stuff, they can with doom…
Dark Chili: Doom is actually a good thing since, even though you;re killing.. you’re killing the bad guys, demons, Hell, Doom teaches you that hell will fuck you up
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: even if it IS over the top
§ TexanMan §: games that mimic real life illegal events should be banned
Nodgene: Games have to do with the korean massicre? Hah! That’s convienient! Ask yourselves why you are allowed to by a semi-automatic pistol! You can murder a dozen people in a psychologically EASY way in seconds with that tool! You don’t have to go up and knife them to death with blood going everywhere and them screeching at you…
»ÌщS« 1™: Srsly?
stinky42: In general the psychological research on violence and video games tends to indicate that there are some short term effects of playing violent video games, but most of this would seem to be due to the fight or flight response that can be evoked. Also there is a high correlation between violent individuals and the consumption of violent media, however it’s more probable that violent people are more interested in violent media than the media makes people violent.
eerofromfinland: Yeah easiest solution to stop school shootings – only guns for those who can really behave with them
The Chaos Demon: Yes trigger. When people just can’t handle the complex reasons behind something, all that’s left to do is to find a scapegoat (videogames in this case) and place the blame on it. Why go the long and hard way when the easy way is oh, so much sweeter?
Lunarbunny: TexanMan: why should they be banned?
Pause: Atomic: Agreed. If someone wants to kill, no censors, no laws, no regulations will stop him
Kerotan: senetors might quote you that eric and dylan played DOOM thousands of times until your ears ring, bit when it comes down to the amount of people comit murder also own a car, so shall we go ban cars?
Jester: for once I agree with the Senator
otakuman24: I’m surprised to see such great comments coming out
Lunarbunny: I don’t see SAW, Hostel, or any other of those movies needing to be banned
Atomic|√êdí³: Texan ok what games do you play>
Lunarbunny: so why are games different, really?
Pause: There’s no point in blaming
§ TexanMan §: i mostly play guildwars
digimediafinance: @stinky42: what about the long term effects on elevated cortosol ?
EGLN|_Loaded: @TexanMan: Games depicting illegal things are actually good. It can stop a person from doing them in real life, as they can do it on a game instead =)
§ TexanMan §: and a little starcraft
Lunarbunny: you’re killing people in GW
Elric: If the American government is against videogames and violence, why make a game called “America’s army” to recruit people?? Ah, and without blood and gore to get a T rating and appeal to a larger audience which are POTENTIAL RECRUITS
Atomic|√êdí³: all war video games pretty much violate the Geniva convetions
Seraph: It is not the feeling of killing that creates pleasure from a game such as CSS, adrenaline is released because of the immediate ‘Danger’ the player comes under – Its about surviving not killing
[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****
What is the best way for Xfire users and the gaming public as a whole to get involved in this discussion or to have their voices heard?
The_Musician: open debate
grammatoneric: Oh I would ban those movies, but really just because they sucked
[PF] Ertle: guild wars needs to be banned for sucking…
§ TexanMan §: how do you think that
Peach: we ban games then we must ban movies, music, books, and tv thats what would need to happen
Lunarbunny: letters to their congressmen
EGLN|_Loaded: Tell your senators your opinion.
Pause: Like Russ said
Lunarbunny: tell your parents, your friends parents
Pause: Writing to congressmen
Jester: but one of many Contributers
Not a Pie: ertle : that’s off topic
EGLN|_Loaded: Turn to the media.
{ONC}Mordakaida: It is the parents job to teach their children that what you see in games and movies that they are fantasy not real life… Why should we take the responsablity away from the parents.. We do that then people are just breeders making babies instead of moral upright citzens
AdDiCt: congressmen and hte aclu
Pause: Everyone, i Propose that we start a Special Intrests group
§ TexanMan §: we should do these debate things a lot more often
Lunarbunny: tell your friends that are parents
Skeeb: I’ve already sent letters to my congressman
TeDwArD ┌╦╤─< : [Xfire] SDaria: the transcript should be shown to the congress to show our opinions
Dark Chili: we need to get a whole community to go out and do something like an online revolution
Elric: cool
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: SDaria… to basicly massively write letters to Video game stores i guess
Dendei: Be civil about it, make a statement that everyone can understand. Then rally together and hope someone listens
Kerotan: letters to members in government more campaigns like childs play and flowers for jack
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: there’s not much to do
♥ wMute ♥: Xfire and the Debate Club needs a discussion forum.
Project X: y is it ok that ultra violent movies that people see are not cendored while games are fought over 24/7 ill tell u y poepl dont considerd them art or sometihng that should get the tight of frfee speech i thinls ot deserves that right
otakuman24: Smart answer from Hal
Pause: I think starting a nationwide Special Interests Group will put it out there for congress to know that we want our voices herd
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: unless you want to go down in the street and protest but that would be ridiculous
Shattered Moon: /agree wMute
Lunarbunny: yeah, threads are easier to follow
.:ハルマゲドン:.: Seriously, that guy was a psycho, his pictures and his style was yelling he is affected by the RAP/HIP-HOP culture, not videogames! You should start putting some attention into Rap and Hip-Hop thing, violence, sex, drugs, etc, are introduced on their musics and video clips, plus the styles and fashion the put to it, that guy has suffered by mental disease, not video games…
Trigger: We need to band together, to form a large group. Possibly join an already existent organization, sending individual letters to various congressmen with no form of organization,will yield nothing
Lunarbunny: there’s no need to protest yet
insertnamehereizzel: To get involved and their voices heard they should get together and pursue their goal
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: overthrow the capitalist regime that controls the media and the government and then maybe your voice will count, until the only thing that has any power is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Nodgene: An option to somehow slow down the chat… or, better yet, to give it a ticket-effect! Chat rolls in. It doesn’t JUMP – JUMP – JUMP! You’ve lost your place. This debate is a good idea, but it’s difficult to read it all! A rolling text approach would do miracles!
{SBOD}s ninja: …..the only thing that makes me worry about banning anything is that when you ban something so big as video games dont you thin kthere will be a revolt or something and think about all the nut casses that need it to keep their violence under control with them
EGLN|_Loaded: There are a lot of things that you can do to raise awareness of the struggle that video games are facing. Call a congressman, leave your senator a letter, the list just goes on
Lunarbunny: We only need to protest if they do something overboard
.:ハルマゲドン:.: certainly not this way
eerofromfinland: Wonder if anyone has crucified anyone, stabbed with a spear and said; “Bible made me do it!”
Elric: the government should be more open to peoples and gamer’s opinions
insertnamehereizzel: STart a petition if you are serious about something
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: if that’s the case we need to censor the quaran to stop the spread of islamic jihad
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: [13:44] eerofromfinland: Wonder if anyone has crucified anyone, stabbed with a spear and said; “Bible made me do it!”
–> Crusades, Inquisition?
[PF] Ertle: well that man did murder several people and blame his dog for telling him to kill them
Dark Chili: cause games actually put you in the killing seat, movies can be violent, but cause you actually don’t do shit, they stay, vidjamagames let you actually rip the dude’s head off, therefor it’s bad
eerofromfinland: haha
Trigger: Elric: Yeah, it seems gamers are looked at as inhuman beings with no morality, if our opinions were valued more maybe we could get further.
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The Chaos Demon: lol, plug war in main floor
Project X: we shoudl staty a pettoin to stop therm from trying to censor game
[PF] Ertle: you write the papers up
[PF] Ertle: ill be the first to sign it
insertnamehereizzel: Projext X, thats the way to do it
swdro: I don’t believe that, Mr Trigger.
Project X: ok i will asap
.:ハルマゲドン:.: I recommend more rooms with more admins and less users, 10 or 20 users per room
Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars! >_>
insertnamehereizzel: I’ll be the first to sign
Seraph: Oh wait, that violates human rights
»ÌщS« 1™: russia545: Why do i have this impusle to kill every living thing?
Trigger: Thats the way it seems to me,they look at all of us as if we live in dungeons and play erotic games all day
»ÌщS« 1™: Wow
[PF] Ertle: farmer
Trigger: and therefore,our opinions are worthless
[PF] Ertle: just taking WoW experiences into real life
.:ハルマゲドン:.: yes
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: it’s just another way of keeping people divided so they won’t unite and take real power for themselves
.:ハルマゲドン:.: I agree Seraph
♥ wMute ♥: lol my question was first
{SBOD}s ninja: good Q. too
.:ハルマゲドン:.: btw seraph are from MGS: TUS?!
Shattered Moon: “[16:45] Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars! >_>” /SIGN
Seraph: No, sorry
Elric: Trigger: Since they use videogames as scapegoats, they’d have nothing to blame if they heard our opinions…..
[PF] Ertle: what an uproar that would cause
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think games make kids more or less violent, i think some games, the ones tha need to be regulated, give the kids who are already inherently violent new ideas, or add a little bit of fuel to an already burning fire
Dark Chili: Guns don’t kill people, Jesus does
[PF] Ertle: hear hear
§ TexanMan §: BULL crap
insertnamehereizzel: Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars

But think of the people that beileve in their religion but dont kill others b/c they arent the same reilgion
[HL] Tru7h: I agree with rayne
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: thx
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think ive been heard before now
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Elric: I agree with Dark chili…….
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Seraph: Thats half the worlds population insert
Trigger: as do i
Seraph: And also my point
Lunarbunny: YES, talk to the children like I keep saying
[PF] Ertle: i find it hard to imagine that most of us whom have been talking have really been heard
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insertnamehereizzel: i know.
[PF] Ertle: unless you read like 5000 wpm
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: lol, but everyone went to the question room
Nodgene: Statistically unlikely, one would assume.
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: so its slowed down in here
[PF] Ertle: im in 3 of em
[ZiiP]Lazzars: question room is where its at
.:ハルマゲドン:.: religions are the disease of this world, are curse of this world, dig out history and 199% of what happened in entire human history, is about religons
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: now we can actually be serious
insertnamehereizzel: It was way to fast in here before
Dark Chili: people need to get off the Xbox or the PC and read some fucking books or get outside
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Just fast enough 🙂
[PF] Ertle: sunlight “HSSSSSSSSS”
Trigger: right,but censoring religion would bring an end to the foundation of millions of people, so its out of the question.
Lunarbunny: I read it almost fast enough
Elric: yeah, since everyone is on QA room we can ACTUALLY DEBATE here….
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Pause: To that question: I think its the whole scapegoat problem like i said before
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Pause: Its the “hip” thing to argue about in congress as of now
Seraph: I’d say I’ve actually learnt FAR far more about history, mathematics and english from videogames than I did from school
[PF] Ertle: i just maximized the chat box
Elric: agrees with Pause….
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: oh come on , first person shooters take more skill and strategy than any other genre
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Pause: and since people just blame it all on that, thats whats getting regulated currently
[=T=] Moo: Not true
Pause: before it was music
»ÌщS« 1™: Could i get unmuted in the question room please?
Pause: now its video games
[=T=] Moo: RTS games, have a tendacy to require more knoledge than FPS
insertnamehereizzel: If people weren’t anti-social and didn’t play GTA, CS, etc all the time we wouldnt have had the Columbine killings and VT
[PF] Ertle: its the popular vote in congress
Nodgene: Not CSS, PIZZAP! That’s a spam fest!
»ÌщS« 1™: ty
Project X: if u think this is worng to censor vidoe games sign this pettoin i found on the web http://www.petitiononline.com/USgamers/petition.html
♥ wMute ♥: religion is a necessity for teaching morals to young children who wouldn’t be able to understand concepts of justice, or other writings from Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Confucious, etc.
Seraph: Trigger, I hope you realise I was being sarcastic
Steel Bear: wow now that the question room is getting all the attention you can actually read.. joy!
[PF] Ertle: yea id imagine that D&D takes more brain power than Doom
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: as far as strategy goes that would be a RTs but those sorta of games never get sensored as they are far more impersonal than the idea of being the character doing the killing
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Music doesnt really puts you in face of Interactivity
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Gaming does
insertnamehereizzel: I agree with mutes point
Nodgene: LOL Insertnamehere… You believe Hitler played too much Manhunt? 😉
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: When a rapper says he’s going to kill people
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: people become antisocial and play a lot of GTA and CS becuase the football players and cheerleaders and rich people won’t LET THEM become part of normal society
insertnamehereizzel: yup
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or already did
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The Chaos Demon: nobody reads anymore?
insertnamehereizzel: lol
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you just hear it
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think its wrong to censor, just not to censor too much… they can censor drugs, but banning red meat is still way far off
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in games… you can actually kill people
Trigger: Its going to come to a crux though,just like music did,it got warning labels (wow..so effective). We have yet to see how the gaming scapegoat will pan out, and we have the ability to effect it.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the way you want to do it
[PF] Ertle: i read the instruction manuals…
Elric: lol at the D&D comment…..
Dark Chili: they censor books now! WHERE THE FUCK WILL IT END?!?!!?
Nodgene: BIQ, why is that a bad thing?
Seraph: I was not suggesting religion should actually be censored, I was showing how utterly stupid that notion is. The same notion applies to videogames
Kaizer Döuken: I tottaly agree with Yee, but I think he should make heavy campaings to make the parents aware of his points
Kaizer Döuken: instead of creating laws against this games
swdro: A very good question, Otakuman.
Elric: I read lots of books, they make me feel like killing ppl more than videogames…….
[PF] Ertle: all those big words…
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nodgene it’s not a bad thing, it’s just the fact that someone asked “why should i be ID’ed to buy games when my little sister can buy the worst type of RAP cd’s”
[ZiiP]Lazzars: its just a passing phase, the politicians love to argue about this as it appears they are listening to the qorries of the people when its really just a distraction form real issues
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: I think Yee’s points about where parents can get information is good
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and im saying that games put you in the interactivity
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: of DOING the action
Project X: to stop them form censoring games i ask u all to sign this pettoin
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: while music only let’s you hear words
Project X: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?USgamers
Nodgene: In a movie, for example, you watch people killing each other, and you’re COMPLETELY disassociated with it. You watch for pleasure, but in a game, you have a choice, and you have to commit yourself to the act, responsibility is much higher… Game killing is nothing realisitic. I can tell you a story to help illustrate this if you’d like 🙂
Nodgene: ah, k
Pause: See, the thing is, parents WON’T see this. Honestly, which parent will actually read conversations such as these other than parents who are gamers themselves
Seraph: The interactivity has been researched by the British board of film censorship. They found gamers actually feel more connected to a film or novel than they do to a videogame
[PF] Ertle: project, is that your petition?
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nodgene good point
[=T=] Moo: Honestly When do you see people driving like in the GTA games, you dont,
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: violence directed at women, or blacks, or jews, or arabs, or gays, or any other group, needs to be censored… we need more than the very few ratings we have right now, and we need to figure a way to force parents to be a little bit more informed, but i dont think the last one is possible
[PF] Ertle: i watch cops, i see it all the time
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but yet again… as you said… in music or movies… you can’t prevent actions
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: you see them driving like that once they’ve drunk a half a keg of beer
insertnamehereizzel: Telling kids to read books and go outside won’t solve the problem. Why don’t the parents plan something family oriented (go out to dinner together, play sports etc.) and ACTUALLY talk with their kids
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or what’s going to happen
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in games… you have the choice to “NOT” do the action
♥ wMute ♥: People used (and still do) use ‘gangsta rap’ as a scapegoat to violence, just how video games do. But people don’t go on a crusade against the Beatles, or other ‘white music’ for the same reasons concerning the use of illegal narcotics. The problem with scapegoats is that it villanizes someone or something while letting free others who may be the true causes. In terms of Video Games and Hip Hop, they’ve been unfairly targetted by those that don’t know any better other than following the leader. Real solutions involve actively searching for reason reasons, rather than just believing whatever Jack Thompson tells you.
Seraph: Censoring violence directed at a certain group of people is racism
Lunarbunny: I like the start of Double Agent, where you’re there being forced to shoot the innocent civilian
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: interactivity makes the difference
[PF] Ertle: lol
Lunarbunny: I felt remorse there

TDF-TITAN: is the owner of x-fire herE????/////
Nodgene: I think in a war game, scenarios in which the player tries to stop mass-murder should be much more prominant. It enforces the idea that the player is a hero, and builds towards the idea of helping others.
[ZiiP]Lazzars: a good film character is far better than any game character as they always have character development, you are made to feel for them and not want them to die, if you are that character yourself it looses that side of things as it needs to be a faceless hero who will just kill everything. hardly something even the most disturbed killer would want to be

Seraph: But you still pulld the trigger Lunar :p
Pause: Mute: Completely agree on that, well said
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Really interesting point Nodgene
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: [13:55] TDF-TITAN: is the owner of x-fire herE????/////
–> Xfire is a part of a publically traded company
Lunarbunny: Seraph: Yes, but that’s because I knew it was still a game
Elric: I agree with insertnamehereizzel, parents should talk to their children
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Nodgene: You may have to bludgeon a horde of enemy soldiers to death, but realise that those soldiers are out there with order to slaughter civilians. Something like that.
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Lunarbunny: I think a lot of people agree that parents need to talk to their kids more about games
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or in games such as GTA
TDF-TITAN: i agree
[ZiiP]Lazzars: parents should talk to their children? like that vid where the mother tried to get her kid of Xbox and hes shouting for chocolate milk?
[PF] Ertle: so who owns the controlling shares?
[PF] Ertle: of Xfire i mean
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you can actually go down the street and kill a ridiculous ammount of people
[HL] Tru7h: Very true. Parents these days are so disconnected from what their kids do and what games they play.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and you can choose not to
Seraph: I thought we were talking about censorship, not xfire.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Truth, this is not right
[PF] Ertle: o righ, slow typer
Jester: thats a terrible idea, my mother does her homework on the games I buy and thus sometimes I DO purchase M games with her assistance, with a back room added that would hinder my ability to review the game before I purchase it
Lunarbunny: That kid should have lost the privilege to play
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nowadays parents are more and more concerned about what their kids are in contact with
[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Yes, you can find out information about Xfire by visiting the about section of the website; this debate is about censorship
Trigger: thats really what it comes down to right now, parental intervention. No restriction will really prohibit children from getting hold of violent games, simply doing away with all restriction and letting parents regulate it..seems logical to me
Lunarbunny: If the parents were actually smart they would have taken the power cable away for a few days
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and what they think about the said thing
[=T=] Moo: Racial, and strerotypeing people PREVENTING actions against people, of certain race or gender to PREVENT racism or Sexism is ACTUALLY PROMOTING it due to the fact that they are saying this and this cant happen to these people. WHen if it happens it should happen to them all or be disregaurded as being SINGLED out
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Because nowadays parents also are people who experienced gaming
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: as i said… most people 35 and under have played video games
Lunarbunny: I want to know what the next era’s scapegoat will be
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so they are more concerned by what their kids are playing
Elric: Actually, my situation is reversed, my parent’s don’t let me to go out and they allow me to play anything I want……. kind of strange…….. fuck parents
[PF] Ertle: ditto
Lunarbunny: What I’m gonna see my peers blaming their kids behavior on
Seraph: I say children learn a lot from games. For example, Call of duty, MOH and other WW2 games teach children not only important historical facts, but teach them to admire heroism and comeradship
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.:ハルマゲドン:.: todays problem is not the video games, it’s lack of responsibility of parents, they’re working too much and they’re forggetting tthat their children need to learn maners and responibility
EGLN|_Loaded: @ Sereph Agreed
§ TexanMan §: what about mods which add features like sex?
[ZiiP]Lazzars: the issue will work itself out once the gamers now become parents as they will know whats going to have an effect
§ TexanMan §: to a game
[PF] Ertle: my parents wouldnt let me go to a sleepover with my friend who lives 5 minutes down the road but i play with him online every day
Pause: Seraph: Not to mention playing Battlefield 1942 helped me learn key names to battles during WW2 haha
Lunarbunny: Mods should not be considered in the ratings
insertnamehereizzel: Lazzars has got a point, children don’t want to do anything with their parents. PARENTS MUST put their kids into a sporting camp or social activity so THE CHILD DOES NOT BECOME TOO ANTI-SOCIAL… Once kids reach a certain point of anti-socialty they DON’T DO ANYTHING
Master Kim: Agreed.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: TexanMan … sadly… 3rd party additions to a game
[HL] Tru7h: What *chinese symbols* said is pretty much what I meant.
♥ wMute ♥: Watching a movie about a serial killer doesn’t make you a serial killer; despite all the techniques used by a director to put you in the mindset of a serial killer in a movie, people make a separation between what happens on screen and themselves. That same separation takes place in Video Games and People, despite whatever immersion used by developpers to put you in that role. The problem with censors is that they’d underestimate the logic and reasoning capacity of children.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: can not be controlled as of yet
Lunarbunny: that’s player created content and was not sanctioned by the developer
EGLN|_Loaded: Mods are independently made, and must be independently downloaded. As they don’t come with the game in question, they shouldn’t be included in the rating.
Seraph: Hot coffee was a mod. People forget that
Trigger: I feel dev’s as exempt from all blame relating to mods. Their only involvement was the release of the tool etc, not the content of the mod itself.
Lunarbunny: now, if the developer went ahead and sanctioned it, then there might be an issue
[HL] Tru7h: Yeah
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Dark Chili: you can mod anything to put boobs into it
[HL] Tru7h: Although, in the PS2 version I believe there was a cheat code to access it
Dark Chili: why not ban all games people can open up?
Kaizer Döuken: I believe so, with even password for the paerent to release it
[ZiiP]Lazzars: player created content shouldn’t have any bearing on ratings as any modder could make any game into hardcore porn if they wanted too
[PF] Ertle: but since it uses the original games engine they consider it part of the original game
[HL] Tru7h: Which would count it as part of the game
Seraph: No, that was a rumour.
[PF] Ertle: like CSS is based of the HL2 engine
Seraph: It required lines and lines of code to get to

[HL] Tru7h: Oooh, in that case it shouldn’t be part of the rating
swdro: Parents have the tools, Senator. They just don’t use them.
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s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: omg, hes not adressing the question, he just keep saying the same responses
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EGLN|_Loaded: Lol
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[PF] Ertle: lol
EGLN|_Loaded: He’s a senator, it’s what they do.
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: hes said that about parents 890 times
Dark Chili: did he just say Vista was a major platform?…. WHAT A N00B!!!
Seraph: Ahaha Agreed loaded
Pause: haha, agreed to the former statement.
Kaizer Döuken: agree, that is why I say he should do heavy campaings to aware people of it
Jester: Hal, I own a Wii, it is not readilyh apparent that such tools exist, so I dont know that that is a valid argument
Nodgene: Perhaps direct interaction is a form of learning? You can choose to go and blow up a child, but you may feel grossly sad after you do it in the virtual world. It’ll be a good lesson for yourself. You can’t experiment with these things in real life…
[HL] Tru7h: I read once that they changed Oblivion to M because a hacker made a nude-mod with an un-used nipple texture.
[ZiiP]Lazzars: hes running out of ammo so hes repeating the same stuff over and over
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Jester: thanks alot for your time guys!
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Trigger: Jester: You can regulate web content with it I believe,idk about other regulation
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Pause: Thanks for the great discussion guys
insertnamehereizzel: Parents need to do more. My neighbor and his kid box together. It is something they both enjoy and his kid plays GTA but IS NOT anti-social
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Kaizer Döuken: There are more XP users than Vista…
[ZiiP]Lazzars: woot, that was fun
Elric: it was cool, i like debating
[PF] Ertle: well you CAN try in the real world, you will just be arrested
swdro: I don’t think I’m ready to quit.
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[HL] Tru7h: It’s over? :/
Jester: ok, I didnt even know it was a tool
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Trigger: Thanks everyone,good time.
insertnamehereizzel: First debate ive ever had
Lunarbunny: I’m glad that Yee actually participated however
[=NA=] §àrgôn: lol
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♥ wMute ♥: are there any prizes? i want a hat like last time, lolz
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Lunarbunny: Jack Thompson has ingored all invitations for debate
EGLN|_Loaded: Good Debate guys!
[PF] Ertle: used to be in the debate club
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Elric: I want something, I’ve never got anything
Seraph: I can’t say I agreed too much with yee, but you have to respect his opinion
[PF] Ertle: jut not with 35 people
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Extremely good debate
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: by far the best i’ve seen so far
swdro: Is that what you call it, Lunar? I’m not so sure.
Peach: thanks for taking the time to talk with us guys
Pause: The fact that he came to this discussion is applaudable
Lunarbunny: call what?
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♥ wMute ♥: no, thank YOU
{SBOD}s ninja: bye bye people
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swdro: Err
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swdro: Wrong person =D
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Seeya Ni
Nodgene: And now I realise I should have been doing assignments due in tomorrow 🙁 Do any of you feel that a completely violent interaction could be a way of detering violence?
Lunarbunny: lol
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otakuman24: So now that the debate is over, I wanted to see if there are other people here who are already a part of the Two-Handed Sword
swdro: No, right person
swdro: That Yee participated.
[PF] Ertle: im not
Pause: Nah, i’m ready and willing to join that however
[HL] Tru7h: I really shouldn’t have slept through half the debate
Shattered Moon: This room was 40 pages in word
Dendei: I was part of the first wave of invites
[HL] Tru7h: Damn my alarm clock
insertnamehereizzel: Woah
[ZiiP]Lazzars: not yet, sadly
Shattered Moon: Microsoft Word*
Seraph: If it was handled correctly Nod
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PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i’m guessing wmute is
Elric: im not part of it, but id like to jion
[PF] Ertle: id like to be but i hardly got to speak
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: or really wnats to be
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nodgene, playing games such as Manhunt or Unreal Tournament surely can make you evacuate some pressure
otakuman24: Well even if you aren’t a membet yet, I figure now is a time to communicate when emotions are at their lowest
otakuman24: The afterglow if you will
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and some rage
insertnamehereizzel: How hard is it to join the Two-Handed Sword?
[=T=] Moo: Any one here have vista?, I do, and i notice LITTLE game complications, any one else notice some major ones?
s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: id like to join as well, but they cant possibly read all of it
[ZiiP]Lazzars: you just need to participate in these things
Steel Bear: i really enjoyed this chat.. syas a special guest.. too bad xfire gamers didn’t enjoy it bcuz of the lack of supply depots/overlords/pylons present
Pause: Otaku: Agreed
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swdro: Sweet, I want in.
Dark Chili: damn, i wannna get into that Two-Handed Sword clan thingy, but fuck, odds are I said fuck too much to get in
[PF] Ertle: well
Pause: Chili: hahaha xD
Dendei: Best I can say for anyone who wishes to join? Just have some good opinions to bring to the table, you will get noticed
insertnamehereizzel: Im interested and debate with my friends all the time but never online like this. This was my first time
Steel Bear: u nvr will, they cant even read your well thought out arguments
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Lunarbunny: I do think it’s a bit fast to place formed opinions
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol Dark Chili
[PF] Ertle: ha
Lunarbunny: some people managed to get huge paragraphs in
{SBOD}s ninja: ………i just want a hat
[PF] Ertle: ive got a couple i suppose
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: who knows… you’ll see soon i guess
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i’d bet they’re gonna invite wmute
digimediafinance: Willl the transcript of this and “Unofficial Chatter” be posted so I can see what I missed?
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: http://www.xfire.com/clans/2handedsword/
Dark Chili: I made some good points… but all the fucks pulled it down
Nodgene: I mean, who in their right mind would want to continue running after children characters in a virtual environment and killing them while others screamed? It’s a lesson learned. I wouldn’t imagine anyone in sane mind would consider such actions pleasurable, even if they did exist in a game.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: cuz he made HUGE posts
[ZiiP]Lazzars: there is no club badge!
Elric: XP FTW!!
Pause: I tried to convey my points out, but reading 3 chats is pretty hard
Jester: Agreed Pause
Elric: at least until the bugs on Vista are fixed…
[ZiiP]Lazzars: a debat this large is hard to keep track of
otakuman24: Well I’m not a member myself, and I’d like to be one, but then again I downloaded and joined Xfire solely for this debate
[Xfire] Artaxs: Unnoficial Chatter will not be posted as a Transcript.
§ TexanMan §: CIA}Crimson_Might: what about the drawing?
[HL] Tru7h: Yeah, will there be a transcript of the open debate, because I missed half of it.
[PF] Ertle: censorship in video games isnt even a big thing, its just lots of senators are trying to get the popular vote
Seraph: Hahha! You could have it as a form of punishment in prisons Nod
insertnamehereizzel: Im good at debating but i have never done it over computer so it didn’t help me.. Hurt me more b/c i could barely follow
[Xfire] Artaxs: The Main Room and the Open Debate Room will be posted.
Pause: oh looks like wMute is already in the @handedSword
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i guess i’ll be promoted to Amateur now
Seraph: Thats hilarious
Pause: 2Handed*
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and i won’t be a Noobie Speaker anymore haha
Dark Chili: the day I pay $400 bucks for Vista to downgrade my PC is the day I give myself a lobotomy with a shotgun
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[Xfire] Artaxs: Noobie Speakers FTW!
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: uncool BIQ ia already in =(
Dendei: Yeah, I believe he was in the first wave with me
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: hahaha
{SBOD}s ninja: ..wheres the drawing
digimediafinance: until what time will open and unnoffical and question roms be open, so I can save the chats myself?
[PF] Ertle: hot
§ TexanMan §: rly hard to debate in a small box
[ZiiP]Lazzars: enlarge th box then
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[PF] Ertle: yea
§ TexanMan §: lol
[PF] Ertle: i have mine maximized
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol yes Lazzars
[PF] Ertle: noob
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: just copy paste the whole thing in notepad
Pause: its hard to debate in a room full of this many people as it is, let alone on the INTERNET
[PF] Ertle: lol
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-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i’ve been in since the 2nd debate
§ TexanMan §: yes
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Elric: I have the box in a huge size…
[PF] Ertle: yea
§ TexanMan §: thats wat i tryed to say
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[PF] Ertle: im used to people taking turns
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digimediafinance: I plan to do exactly than, but want to wait until the end…
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The Chaos Demon: Yeah, I copy and pasted the main floor into notepad.
[PF] Ertle: like they do in real debates
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: its just a shame the first were about things i know nothing about (Wow and css?) so i wouldn’t have been much use anyway
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Pause: exactly, Lincoln-Douglas is my favorite style
Pause: Free-For-All spam box is harder to debate in
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: well i’m sure once they build up the debate club, they’ll keep it more organized and limited
[PF] Ertle: yea
Nodgene: XFIRE PEOPLE! Can I request you make xfire’s chat smooth flowing? So it’s not so hard to keep up? Lines move up like a ticker moves across?
[HL] Tru7h: Yeah
[PF] Ertle: i cant read or type fast enough to reply
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol, Well, Lazzars… i know a lot of things about almost everything gaming-related
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Kaizer Döuken: Hail for a new ESRB Rating between T and M
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so it’s not a problem for me to ask questions and give my point
insertnamehereizzel: a
Pause: Mid-Teen? 15+?
[PF] Ertle: tween
Lunarbunny: I think there are enough ratings already
[HL] Tru7h: I do better debating in forums
Elric: I think they should invite less ppl to degates, they’re kind of…….. disorganized…
§ TexanMan §: lol tween
Pause: Unneccessary IMO
{SBOD}s ninja: haol for a number system screw annoing letters
[PF] Ertle: lol
[HL] Tru7h: When I have time to think about my post and spell check it and all
Nodgene: BIQ, is Kane the messiah? 😉
.:ハルマゲドン:.: great point Nodgene
[ZiiP]Lazzars: for me the life after lvl 60 or something one was a bit less of a debate and more of a nerd fest really
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: LOL
Lunarbunny: we have EC,E,E10+,T,M,AO
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: people bragging of their levels
Master Kim: Kane is the messiah.
[PF] Ertle: i had a 60 warrior!
[ZiiP]Lazzars: peace through power!
otakuman24: As a newcomver to XFire, these chats were very hard to navigate as many people were in and constantly conversing
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 8ball says: Maybe yes, Maybe no
[PF] Ertle: but it was boring as hell
Lunarbunny: movies are G,PG,PG13,R, and NC17
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[PF] Ertle: cuz my friend made 70 in 4 days
Dendei: I couldn’t make that debate unfortunately
Seraph: See, living in England. I have an age rating on each game. Its 12, 15, 18 – And shops dont sell 18 games to kids
[PF] Ertle: owned
The Chaos Demon: Well, as long as they keep the discussions based on something most gamers have has contact with. WoW and CS:S were good choices due to their popularity.
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: well Seraph
[ZiiP]Lazzars: not often anyway
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insertnamehereizzel: otakuman24: As a newcomver to XFire, these chats were very hard to navigate as many people were in and constantly conversing
I second that
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: over here… they sell any games to kids
Dendei: Otaku: Yeah they get pretty crazy, but with time, you get used to it a bit
digimediafinance: I am in interested in the jurisdictional issues
[PF] Ertle: i think the americas need to take a lesson from across the pond
Kaizer Döuken: yea I believe 15 is good for another rating
[PF] Ertle: in most forms of like
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otakuman24: It’s been a while since I’ve been in public chats
Lunarbunny: all the game shops around here (seattle) card you
Pause: Honestly, and if they don’t sell it to the kid, the kid will just go over afriend’s house
Nodgene: BIQ, you play any C&Cs?
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: i’ve been in loads of chats before and alot of the dev chats get bad quickly
[PF] Ertle: public transportation and everything
otakuman24: Although I have been around the chat circuit myself
otakuman24: I’ve been chatting since Age 12
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otakuman24: And as my name says, I’m 24
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: nope Nodgene… i’m not into RTS at all tbh
[PF] Ertle: ive been talking since 2
Kaizer Döuken: harumagedon what do you think?
[HL] Tru7h: Lunarbunny!
[HL] Tru7h: Grats
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[=NA=] §àrgôn: there’s prizes?
Pause: Grats lunar
Dark Chili: lucky
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: hats
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: and games
[=NA=] §àrgôn: is that why there are people still here/
Nodgene: Blah. You disapoint me 🙁
Dark Chili: gratz
[HL] Tru7h: Yeah, three hats
Lunarbunny: eh
[=NA=] §àrgôn: o, cool
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 🙁
The Chaos Demon: Otaku, good thing the chats are invide only
Seraph: Congrats Lunar
[PF] Ertle: lol
Nodgene: WE LIKE THE DISCUSSION! It’s farmore casual now everyone has buggere off 😀
Lunarbunny: 🙂
[HL] Tru7h: Is lunar even here?
Elric: lol
Dendei: I was the question picker once for a dev chat with the Pirates of the Burning Sea crew. It was fun but a lot of work
[ZiiP]Lazzars: you know nothing if you don’t know about the technology of peace!
[HL] Tru7h: Deamon! Grats again
[=NA=] §àrgôn: well, the more you participated the more chance u get to win
[=NA=] §àrgôn: o
Invader_Akira: aww
[=NA=] §àrgôn: nm! i was wrong
Pause: Grats to the winners
Kaizer Döuken: Hahaha Elliot Gratz
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[HL] Tru7h: You get a hat :>
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: i get a question chosen most chats i’m in for the dev chats, they are usually quite good
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Lunarbunny: woot
[=NA=] §àrgôn: hats are good, i want a hat or t shirt
{CIA}Crimson_Might: i should have won
[PF] Ertle: i want a hat…
[HL] Tru7h: Elliot too. =P
[=NA=] §àrgôn: lol
Pause: Oh well guys, nice discussion, I’ll be leaving now 😀
The Chaos Demon: I want to win a girlfriend. not hat 🙁
Seraph: Seeya
Pause: Hopefully i’ll get to join TTHS sooner or later
[HL] Tru7h: I don’t really wear hats
[=NA=] §àrgôn: guess ill just have to buy one once i get a job 😛
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[PF] Ertle: im gonna shoot people now and blame it on this xfire debate
Dendei: Who were the winners? Didn’t catch them
{CIA}Crimson_Might: because i reminded you
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Nodgene: BIQ, I can’t add you? You don’t exist? :\
.:ハルマゲドン:.: goodby6 guys Cya around 🙂
[HL] Tru7h: A necklace might be good because I have 2 I wear 24/7
[=NA=] §àrgôn: lol chaos
Elric: I want a gf too
{CIA}Crimson_Might: can i have a hat?
Elric: xD
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[=NA=] §àrgôn: [16:09] [Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Prize winner #1 = Lunarbunny
[16:10] [Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Prize Winner #2 = The Chaos Deamon
[16:10] [Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Prize Winner #3 = Elliot
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: they’ll announce them by email and probably on the transcripts too
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: nodgene… username is biggie514
insertnamehereizzel: Pause: Hopefully i’ll get to join TTHS sooner or later
How long have u been trying to get in?
Dendei: Ahhh congrats!
Nodgene: thank ye 😉
-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: np
Master Kim: “I got into the Xfire Debate Room about Censorship in games and all I got was this lousy T-shirt!”
[ZiiP]Lazzars: awww
[PF] Ertle: next time
[PF] Ertle: maybe have more rooms tho man
Lunarbunny: XD
insertnamehereizzel: haha
Dendei: And thanks Sargon
[PF] Ertle: was so hard with like 50 people talkin at once
otakuman24: Are the people in charge of the debate still around?
[HL] Tru7h: [17:11] Master Kim: “I got into the Xfire Debate Room about Censorship in games and all I got was this lousy hat!”
Master Kim: Indeed.
{CIA}Crimson_Might: THE WINNERS OWE ME!!!
[HL] Tru7h: xD
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Elric: lol
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[=NA=] §àrgôn: np
otakuman24: So now that things have cooled down a bit, I wanted to sit down and talk seriously with everyone here in order to try and see a more clairvoyant view of the issues at hand
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insertnamehereizzel: same
Coen: oh its over, to bad
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: what i could do with a two hander sword….
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Seraph: A clairvoyant view? lol
[PF] Ertle: big words
[HL] Tru7h: 😛
Nodgene: Mysticism?
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: lollercaust
Master Kim: A voyeuristic view? lol
[PF] Ertle: lol
Dendei: Anyway, great discussion everyone. See you next debate!
insertnamehereizzel: lol
Seraph: You want to see into another realm then I take it?
insertnamehereizzel: See you
Master Kim: Yay.
[PF] Ertle: bye dendei
Seraph: :p
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[=NA=] §àrgôn: bye dendei
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[PF] Ertle: alllllllllllllrighty then
digimediafinance: is there anyone that would be interested in a more extended discussion onthese matters for my blog at digimediafinance.com?
[PF] Ertle: yea
otakuman24: Namely where, what, and should there be, any sort of changes in the development, production, and evaluation of games to help make game nay-sayers more content with the system at hand
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: why not
[PF] Ertle: ill take you on, you nancy boy
Elric: anybody wanna add me? my username is adivinaquiensoy
otakuman24: AND, are games the new Rock and Roll / Comic Books?
Nodgene: I have no time tonight for that digimedia.
Seraph: Games are a scapegoat like any other
Master Kim: Last one to leave this room is gay!
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: the real issue is censorship itself
[ZiiP]Lazzars: funny
[PF] Ertle: ill be last then
[HL] Tru7h: lol
[PF] Ertle: thatll be the next debate
The Chaos Demon: I would think so otakuman, they’ve turned into the newmedium you’re ‘supposed’ to blame.
[PF] Ertle: am i truly gay?
Elric: lol
[ZiiP]Lazzars: if you like
Cyron_HOTO: yes
Master Kim: If you want to be.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: nah they just added to the list of things to blame
Elric: I don’t wanna be gay !!!
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otakuman24: If video games are like Rock and Roll, then won’t those that are strongly opposed to them eventually give up?
Nodgene: Otakuman, I’d say… maybe games “adult” and “child”. Black and white. Killing someone in a game is entertaininment, but it is also an adult act. A parent can buy for their children that way, and be aware of what they’re buying.
[ZiiP]Lazzars: sucks to be you then
otakuman24: or settle down?
[HL] Tru7h: okakumna, I was about to say that!
insertnamehereizzel: IMO this issue could be avoided if children were more mature…. I practice Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and can break arms and legs but it doesn’t mean that I do it to people on the street, I am mature enough to do it. OBVIOUSLY little kids arent mature enough to play GTA or halo
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: they still blame death metal, they still blame tv… they just added games to the list
[HL] Tru7h: otakuman*
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Dark Chili: chocolate milk kid
Dark Chili: lol
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: oh yeah
Kaizer Döuken: I still believe they should make out a new rating between T and M at age 15-16
Seraph: Why is Halo considered overly violent? I never played it
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Nodgene: Well
otakuman24: Well then riddle me this, if they still go on about it, why don’t you see it in the news anymore?
[ZiiP]Lazzars: the guns i suppose
[PF] Ertle: halo really isnt violent compared to games like UT04
[PF] Ertle: where people explode
[PF] Ertle: literally
-|HR|-Mugzzzy: I think like the guest speakers were saying, the most important thing is to educate the parents about the risks of hletting their children play violdent video games.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: halo is just the most played console fps
{NDAA}/SW_WolfCub: very true
Seraph: Lots of games have guns. They dont have purple blood
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: it’s in the spotlight
[=NA=] §àrgôn: yea
[PF] Ertle: yea they do
[HL] Tru7h: Blood, beating people over the head with a rifle, … umm… language
Nodgene: you shoot things. But the alien grunts are like mentally handicapped children, and often run towards their enemies screaming in high-pitched voices when you throw a plasma grenade which sticks to them… You see…
[HL] Tru7h: Thats all I can think of
Dark Chili: it’s cause they don’t shoot people
Elric: I played DOOM when i was 3, I’m 14 and i’m a great student, and I could always tell between fantasy and reality ¬¬
[ZiiP]Lazzars: halo 3 is going to be hit hard by that shit i suppose
insertnamehereizzel: -|HR|-Mugzzzy: I think like the guest speakers were saying, the most important thing is to educate the parents about the risks of hletting their children play violdent video games.
thats the best thing ive hard all day… seriosuly
otakuman24: I want to pause for a second and look at shooters solo for a minute
otakuman24: What is the first shooter to ever be made?
Nodgene: Doom.
{NDAA}/SW_WolfCub: Same with me Elric doom since kid,safe now
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: wolfenstein 3d
[PF] Ertle: no doom wasnt the first
Nodgene: Or that
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: before doom
[ZiiP]Lazzars: wolf 3D?
otakuman24: Before Wolfenstein 3D
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: there was escape from castle wolfenstein in 3d
Nodgene: going way back
[HL] Tru7h: War?
[PF] Ertle: was it wolfenstein?
[PF] Ertle: hmm
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Nodgene: to where people were blocks
Elric: cool
[=NA=] §àrgôn: Pong?
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otakuman24: keep in mind that I said “SHOOTER” not “FIRST PERSON Shooter”
[=NA=] §àrgôn: was that a shooter?
[HL] Tru7h: People with guns?
[PF] Ertle: pooty tang?
[=NA=] §àrgôn: lol
Elric: hmmmmmm……… Super Noah 3D?
Elric: xD
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: yeah pong is a shooter i’d say
Seraph: Wolfenstien 3d was great. Kiling cybernetically enhanced hitler FTW
[PF] Ertle: lol
[ZiiP]Lazzars: robo hitler!
otakuman24: The answer is Computer Space
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: the ball is a bullet and the bar is a gun
[ZiiP]Lazzars: i still got that on my PC somewhere
otakuman24: The FIRST game ever made
[PF] Ertle: really?
Kaizer Döuken: that is why I believe there should be a new rating between T and M to separate games like GTA, UT from HALO and such
otakuman24: Think about it this way
[HL] Tru7h: Define game
Seraph: Did anyone ever play Syndicate?
insertnamehereizzel: Ever hear of General Custers Revenge?
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[HL] Tru7h: Game in a primitive sense or in a sense of an electronic game
Dark Chili: gross game
Seraph: The first game to not punish OR reward you for killing civilians
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Master Kim: That sounds like Tuesday’s surprise!
otakuman24: In Computer Space, you were two space ships drawn with vector graphics, orbiting a gravity altering star, and trying to shoot the other down
otakuman24: It was a 2-player deathmatch essentially by today’s lingo
otakuman24: BUT would you call that violence?
Master Kim: O RLY?
Elric: cool
Master Kim: Yes.
Master Kim: Super Mario is pretty damned violent.
[ZiiP]Lazzars: nah, its way tame
Master Kim: You step on turtles and use their shells as weapons.
[PF] Ertle: jumping on people
Master Kim: And mushrooms.
Elric: lol
[PF] Ertle: and taking their money
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Master Kim: Look at those poor mushrooms!
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i learned my lesson about killing NPC’s in games when i was playing return to zork and stabbed the waif. that one dude showed up and took all my equipment and the game became unwinnable. they need to put more shit like THAT in games, to teach you to not be a tard lol
[Xfire] Artaxs: and throw fire at them
[ZiiP]Lazzars: though the magic mushrooms were interesting
Elric: mushrooms are teh drugs!!! ban Mario!!!
Dark Chili: lol, shrooms!
[HL] Tru7h: Mushrooms = drug use
Nodgene: Halucinagenics, assaultand theft! Mario is damn good.
[PF] Ertle: you kill them and take thier money
Dark Chili: that’s why he gets so big!
[PF] Ertle: and throw dinosaurs into lava
Dark Chili: killing turtles
otakuman24: I want to stick to Computer Space if possible
[PF] Ertle: ic
otakuman24: Who here has actually PLAYED Computer Space?
{NDAA}/SW_WolfCub: Mushrooms=high Killing by smooshing people, only thing left is blood mario is the worst game ever,just covered up with kiddyness
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[ZiiP]Lazzars: no dice
[Xfire] Artaxs: woot for Computer Space!
otakuman24: Or even a remake of it
insertnamehereizzel: < ==
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i don’t even know what it is
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: and i’m your age
Dark Chili: Weed is better
[HL] Tru7h: Mario is anti-turtle propaganda :O
[PF] Ertle: well that games pretty old, before my time
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i remember the first wing commander
otakuman24: Allow me to share some information on it
Master Kim: Mario promotes drug use.
Elric: lol
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i remember all the apogee titles
Dark Chili: who here celebrated 4:20?
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: but i have NO CLUE what “computer space” is
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: me
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PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: )
Nodgene: I have noticed something interesting…
Master Kim: Have you guys noticed the rise in pollution?
Nodgene: When C&C1 came out, it was rated 15.
PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: 4/20
Dark Chili: it’z carz!
Master Kim: That was noticed on 4/20
Elric: lol
[ZiiP]Lazzars: yes, its inversly proportional to the levels of pirates
Master Kim: RTS = Win
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: bye all!
Elric: it’s 4:20 here in mexicox
Nodgene: When it was released in packs now, it’s rated 12.
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: thanks for coming
Seraph: Bye
insertnamehereizzel: bye
Elric: xD
otakuman24: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Space
otakuman24: THIS is Computer Space

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